Mystic Elevator Hit & Run

[Deverdon]

I've discovered what may be an unbeatable tactic for the heroes in certain haunts. I've actually only done this twice so such a bold statement may be premature...but anyway.
If you come across a haunt where the monsters MUST move toward you, get all the heroes in the Mystic Elevator. Basically, you use one player's turn to move the players in range, make an attack, and get back in the elevator. Repeat this with other players until the last and they take the elevator out of reach of the monsters. Since all the heroes are in the same square, you know where the monsters have to go and therefore it is very easy to avoid them.
This tactic was used against my buddy PWT twice and worked perfectly...except that it required lots of patience and completely slows down the game. It was frustrating and not that much fun for the traitor to keep having to move his monsters in circles. But who cares? Good guys won!
The purpose of this thread? Maybe to gloat, sure. But how does a traitor defeat this? PWT tried some fancy combination of items that would have messed up the strategy, but rolled poorly. So there you go.

[GRMJR]

I think I see a flaw in that strategy.

The elevator takes off as soon as a hero enters it. Therefore only the first hero would be able to "hit and run" and thereby leave the others stranded.

The elevator still moves randomly for the heros and any control in this way would is lost. However the monsters still have control when they enter and could potentially do a hit and run against you.

[pwt1997]

Does a player HAVE to move the Mystic Elevator when he/she enters it, or can they ignore the roll and just leave it in its original location?

If the player MUST roll, that seriously jeopardizes Deverdon's strategy.

As the guy who's fallen to this strategy twice, I do give props to my boy Deverdon for coming up with this - it's as frustrating to play against as anything - beacuse the monsters are helpless, but it's unbeatable, in my opinion.

But if the rules state something about having to move the Mystic Elevator, then his strategy has some holes in it. I don't have a rule book - can anyone clarify?

[Deverdon]

I'm at work now and don't have a rule book. I checked the FAQ and it doesn't say either way if you have to roll the elevator. Now that I think about it, it does make sense that heroes have to roll each time. Does anyone have the writing on the card handy? Even so, one can still end thier turn on the elevator and wait for others to join, so the strategy still works.
Sub-question: If you roll and have to move on the same floor, do you have to put it on a different door, or can you leave it where it is?
Sub-Sub Question: So if you do roll, move the elevator, hit and run, then come back, I'm assuming you must roll a second time?

[pwt1997]

This brings up some interesting questions:

-Can the elevator be moved more than once per each turn?

-Does the hero have to roll when he/she enters the elevator? And, once they've rolled, is the elevator "inactive" for the rest of their turn?

-What happens when a hero ends their turn in the elevator after it has already been used?

-What happens when a hero starts their turn in the elevator? Are they required to roll to begin their turn?

[GRMJR]

The script on the room tile says you must roll for it and I think the rulebook also explicitly states this. The exception is the monsters where they are allowed to ignore what is written on the tiles if they choose.

[GRMJR]

You can't end your turn in it so you are dumped outside of it wherever it ends up. Same as the coal chute in this respect.

[Deverdon]

Where did GRMJR get the rule about getting dumped out? I don't agree with that at all. Being dumped out of the coal chute makes sense, but I don't see that happening with the elevator. If you run out of speed while on the elevator, you don't get a bonus space by being dumped out. You're stuck.

In thinking about all these questions, my thoughts are that an explorer / hero must roll each time he ENTERS the elevator. If a character enters the elevator more than once a turn (a hit and run) they must roll again.
If a character begins the turn in the elevator, they either move out of it on the next turn, or they must roll.
In answer to my own question, I think that an elevator roll that puts you on the same level you already are on requires you to move the elevator to a different door. Unless there are no open doors, then it remains.

Again, these are my interpretations. Let me know what you think, or if you find rules that challange.

[GRMJR]

Deverdon....the interpretation for being dumped out is my own and I haven't seen anything to confirm or contradict it. And it seems logical.

I base it on the fact that the elevator moves no matter what as soon as a hero enters it. If the hero were allowed to stay inside then it would have to keep moving around. We play that you exit and then must re-enter if you are dis-satisified with its location. There is nothing that stops you from re-entering. The movement cost is still 1 to enter and nothing upon exiting.

If the hero were to end his turn in the elevator I would say that he would have to roll again as soon as his turn started.

I don't have the rules in front of me but I think they allude to this when they decribe the nmovement cost for it.

[GRMJR]

After further reading on the subject I think that there may be issues with how we are both looking at it. The rules FAQ (at BGG) says that "a monster may..................but still only once per turn".

If that is true then there is a limit to its use and one can not leave and get back in as my group has allowed or keep rolling if you remain inside as you propose.

I will have to ckeck when I get home tonight.

my $0.02

[pwt1997]

[QUOTE=GRMJR]I base it on the fact that the elevator moves no matter what as soon as a hero enters it. If the hero were allowed to stay inside then it would have to keep moving around. We play that you exit and then must re-enter if you are dis-satisified with its location. There is nothing that stops you from re-entering. The movement cost is still 1 to enter and nothing upon exiting . . . If the hero were to end his turn in the elevator I would say that he would have to roll again as soon as his turn started.QUOTE]

You contradict yourself in this post. You say a hero activates the elevator as soon as he/she enters it. If that is that case, how can a hero end his/her turn in the elevator, if they have to activate it when they go back in?

I see the Elevator (by the way, with no rules anywhere nearby) as similar to the Coal Chute, etc. It takes one movement to get in, but no movement to get out - you end up in the room where the elevator takes you. And, just like you can't end your turn standing on the coal chute, you can't end your turn in the elevator.

Just my thoughts.....

[GRMJR]

PWT1997 wrote " You contradict yourself in this post. You say a hero activates the elevator as soon as he/she enters it. If that is that case, how can a hero end his/her turn in the elevator, if they have to activate it when they go back in?"

Let me re-phrase.....I do not think you can end your turn inside the elevator. However, IF (IF being the key word) that were possible then I believe you would immediately role at the beginning of the next turn.

[pwt1997]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm very interested to see what the rules say about this.

[GRMJR]

I would like to hear how others are interpreting these rules as well.

Our group basically decides at the moment someone suggests a course of action that is not specifically discussed what happens. Most of the time we look at the specific scenario and see how these actions fit into the grand scheme of things.

Keep up the good posting

[Deverdon]

Can I have some pepper with these words I'm about to eat?

Okay, here is what the rule book says...

This tile moves as soon as you enter it. Roll 2 dice and put it adjacent to a connecting door on the appropriate floor. (If there isn't one, leave the Elevator where it is). If you roll the same floor, you can move the elevator to a different connecting door on your floor. You can only use the elevator once a turn.

So...
Yes, you have to role a soon as you enter it.
Yes, you can only use it once per turn.

But...
It doesn't say you HAVE to leave the elevator. And since the elevator moves when you ENTER it, if you choose to stay in the elevator, it doesn't move. This makes it possible for multiple people to be on the elevator.

Therefore...
If two characters are on the elevator, one character can move the elevator, attack and get back on the elevator. The second player can do the same attack, get back on the elevator, and then it would have to move.

I think the hit and run works, though not as liberally as we were playing it (sorry PWT). Which brings up the problem that this just isn't much fun to play against. So I have a proposed house rule...As soon as someone exits the elevator (regardless if multiple people are on it), that player rolls two dice and the elevator AUTOMATICALLY is sent to the corrasponding floor (the roller decides where). The spirit of this is that as soon as the elevator door closes behind you, it goes off somewhere else. The traitor can still control the elevator while on it, but when he leaves it goes somewhere else. This benifits / hurts both sides equally.

That's my nickel.

[GRMJR]

I will concede, although reluctantly, that a player might want to end his turn in the elevator and is thus allowed.

Could someone please pass the ketchup :)

But I don't see the strategy since as soon as the next player enters the elevator it will take off again.

With 2 people:

The first player enters, the elevator moves ever so conveinently next to player 2 and player 1 ends his turn.

Then the next player gets on and it takes off again (albeit dependant on the dice) and lands adjescent to the monsters.

Monsters go yada yada....

Assuming the monsters don't storm the elevator (if that's their intent) then the first player declares his action. He gets off. does his thing and as soon as he steps back on it moves again.

This leaves the 2nd player tagging along for the ride. He wouldn't get to attack.

Am I missing something?

I don't see the strategy since this could be done by player one alone.

As for your house rules I think if everyone agrees on them that is fine but I think this drags out the game as you initially mentioned.

Geo

[Deverdon]

The strategy would be to get the heck away from Frankentstien...or spook of your choice.
I don't think the house rule will slow the game down. In fact it would do the opposite because it would prevent you from using my hit & run strategy (which I admit, even if it works, it is boring and the game suffers). The house rule prevents people from hitting and running because it won't be there after you leave. It also prevents the traitor from going to practically any room he pleases every turn.

By the way, I love disecting rules like this. I'm in a bible study group and we spent an hour talking about two verses (Matthew 9: 13-14). I love depth.

[GRMJR]

After mulling it over I kinda like that house rule you propose Dev. I'll have to run it by the rest of my group.

However I think it might be more realistic (and quite interesting) if the placement is random rather than the roller's choice, specifically for the heroes. They would have no idea where its going in this case....BUT....I know what you are going to say......"that is how it is done normally". However one could rationalize that when inside you are frantically pressing buttons that might control it somehow (I know its a s t r e t c h). Taking away all control is too mean and this would definitely make thing more fustrating for them. Thus a makeshift compromise is in order. They still know where it ends up in the house when the doors open (some high pitch bell or dreadful elevator music) and will have to plan accordingly to get control among themselves if they want (or need) to use it for escape, etc.

Additionally I would let the traitor (or the monster lord) control where it ends up after the proposed exit roll. They would abide by the floor rolled but be allowed to place it where they wish. Any additional minions would not have this capability...just "management". Again I think that is fair since all the heroes will get to go before the traitor/monsters and they have more time to plan it out between them.

Thoughts?

[Deverdon]

GRMJR, I think we're talking about the same thing. My idea is that after any player (hero or traitor) exits the elevator, they roll two dice. The elevator goes to the floor accroding to the dice (which is random), but they do get to choose which door it connects to (which is strategic). I would even be up for random door placement, but I can't think of a practical way of doing that.
I have not had the chance to try this out in an actual game, so if your group does give it a try, please let me know how it works. Also if they have any other / better ideas.

[ChuckRoddy]

Well, there is always the chance of the elevator (or for you Brittish fans, the "Lift") falling and damaging everyone inside. Maybe those odds should increase based on occupancy.

And does the Aerosmith song "Love in an elevator" come into your heads when that tile is revealed? I don't think we playing a single session with someone singing that/

[GRMJR]

I also like that idea of an occupancy variant. Perhaps 1 added die of physical damage for each person if it crashes is a good start.

No elevator singing however "...going to the chapel" comes to mind.

A 50's song for the under 30 crowd ;)

[revnk]

...that's come up in one or two of our games was "Toys in the Attic." Except, as befits a crowd of 80s GenXers, we tend to sing it like Michael Stipe in the R.E.M. cover from "Dead Letter Office." Which, some of you may recall, isn't a pretty sound. This may be why the cats hide from us on game night.