Best Allied Strategy?

[facch]

I have played plenty of the original (MB) A&A, and so I understand many basic strategies, etc. However, a friend recently bought A&A Revised and I think that it offers a few new twists (I like the new pieces, setup and map). Overall Axis strategy seems to be the same -- get to Moscow. To that end, you buy GER tanks, attack the US navy on J1, and try to expand on the Asian mainland with ***. Russia seems the same -- defend, and doing so in the east is easier under the new setup. However, I have some questions about the best Allied strategy round 1, specifically the UK and US. Seems that with a stronger GER, cooperation is absolutely essential to save the Allies, and getting onto Europe to make it a 2 front war is critical.

So here's my question: assuming GER attacks UK Med Navy on G1, and *** sinks US fleet at Hawaii and retains significant forces there, what's the best UK and US responses? I have looked online and found little strategy suggestions and turn 1 opening moves for A&A Revised.

[nielsvk]

Yup, I'm new to AA and have AA4 as well. It would be great if the old stuff gets updated! :D

[RuHurt]

I like to use the UK to build Fighters (since they're only 10 IPC now, you can buy 3 on the first turn), to handle the German fleet (assuming Germany does destroy the UK's fleet on GER1, which is actually rare in my experience). America can build an Aircraft Carrier, and move two Fighters onto it on the first turn, as well as a couple of Transports, and invade Algeria. You'll want to take Africa quickly, to prevent Germany from getting too many IPCs from it (same as in Original). Then you can probably launch an invasion of Southern or Western Europe, using your African troops. The UK can get into the act too, by building Transports and Infantry (maybe the occasional Tank or Artillery) and sending in support troops to the places America has already taken.

Just a couple ideas :D.

[axis_roll]

three simple letters: K.G.F.

Kill Germany First !
==============
Out of the box AH rules are broken, specifically US bombers/
My advice to you is to find the LHTR rules and follow them.

[facch]

Ok, KGF -- what's the best build on UK1 and US1 to achieve that goal? Seems like some suggest taking Norway asap, others suggest building ftrs to send to Russia, others suggest practically all transports. And does an aggressive ftr/trn build for the UK mean no IC on India?

[Mighty Airforce]

Ok, KGF -- what's the best build on UK1 and US1 to achieve that goal? Seems like some suggest taking Norway asap, others suggest building ftrs to send to Russia, others suggest practically all transports. And does an aggressive ftr/trn build for the UK mean no IC on India?

I think this paper does a pretty good job of describing how to move material from the US towards Germany

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Caspian_Sub/files/%20Policy%20Papers/

[Clausewitz]

I find the Algeria double build up to be solid. UK takes Alg then USA reinforces. This build up, supported by a strong Allied fleet, can be difficult for the Germans to deal with. If they want to sack the Luftwaffe attacking your Algerian stack then let them go ahead and make your day. Once established, it can threated Southern Europe by sea while clearing the Germans from Africa and eventually drive towards that decisive battle for the Moscow/Caucasus/India region.

[newaxis]

I like building an AC, DD, and 2 inf in SZ 8 with UK. You can land uk or us ftrs on it, and move the us fleet off the east coast to reinforce. That gives you 1 AC, 2 Ftrs, 1 BB, 2 DD, 4 Transports. Germany won't attack that.

[DELOSAXIS]

OK I like KGF too... But I buy fleet UK at the first, Aircraft Carrier and transport, and the USA buy a fleet at the Pacific to attack Japan but help Uk send transports to Algeria

Algeria is the first target to invaded and the next may be Italy or France

Japan can wait until Germany fall

[psychotropic]

If you go with the R1 buy of fighter, tank and 3 inf and park all you fighters in caucuss at the end of your first turn. I've said this before and people didn't like it. If germany goes into egypt on it's first turn and leaves a BB and tranny there, then hit it on your second turn with the three fighters. You'll lose two on average. If you stop the thought here it doesn't sound worth it but follow me for a moment. The previous threads have spoken of the importants of stoping germany in africa. You immediately put a halt to a second round reinforcement of Africa by germany. This means the allies don't have to divert so much material there to stop them so can afford to press elsewhere quicker. Norway for example. If you have lend lease they can afford to replace your fighters for you. The pressure is on for sure. Germany is likely to send everything at you as opposed to rebuild their fleet for Africa as it would have to be a big buy because the allies will have planes in range. It's not like they can just build a transport. The allies will be able to spend their money coming to your rescue instead of fighting in africa so it balances out.

Now here's the beauty of the plan. Do it just once and germany will never move their fleet to egypt on G1 again. No matter what the initial cost to Russia the allies can save them with a well coordinated effort. This means Germany likely won't take egypt on turn 1 and a UK fighter is saved. Belive me nothing can prepare you for the shock of losing that german fleet on R2 unless it's happened to you. Anybody whose axis stategy surrounds germany taking africa will do anything to save that BB and tranny. The other benefit is of course not having to worry about an amphibious German assault into Caucuss.

Note: It will take some time to work out your rescue strategy so you may not be successful the first couple times. But I have a hard time believing Germany will leave their fleet in range of Russia's three fighters if they know how your going to use them.

[Vollick1979]

Russian fighters are far more valuable then the German fleet in the Med. Germany can rebuild that fleet for 24 IPC's (16 for an AC and 8 for a tranny) and with two fighters on it and Germany is back at it. Those fighters are imperative for taking dead zones and without them Russia is in trouble.

Your assessment that do it just once and Germany will never take Egypt again is not accurate. The consequences of not taking Egypt G1 is more than that of losing a German BB and TR.

[TomJag3]

A_R and AR have proven to me that India can't be held in Enhanced. I guess I'll have to try KGF, as much as I hate the idea.

[axis_roll]

If you go with the R1 buy of fighter, tank and 3 inf and park all you fighters in caucuss at the end of your first turn. I've said this before and people didn't like it. If germany goes into egypt on it's first turn and leaves a BB and tranny there, then hit it on your second turn with the three fighters. You'll lose two on average. If you stop the thought here it doesn't sound worth it but follow me for a moment. The previous threads have spoken of the importants of stoping germany in africa. You immediately put a halt to a second round reinforcement of Africa by germany. This means the allies don't have to divert so much material there to stop them so can afford to press elsewhere quicker. Norway for example. If you have lend lease they can afford to replace your fighters for you. The pressure is on for sure. Germany is likely to send everything at you as opposed to rebuild their fleet for Africa as it would have to be a big buy because the allies will have planes in range. It's not like they can just build a transport. The allies will be able to spend their money coming to your rescue instead of fighting in africa so it balances out.

Now here's the beauty of the plan. Do it just once and germany will never move their fleet to egypt on G1 again. No matter what the initial cost to Russia the allies can save them with a well coordinated effort. This means Germany likely won't take egypt on turn 1 and a UK fighter is saved. Belive me nothing can prepare you for the shock of losing that german fleet on R2 unless it's happened to you. Anybody whose axis stategy surrounds germany taking africa will do anything to save that BB and tranny. The other benefit is of course not having to worry about an amphibious German assault into Caucuss.

Note: It will take some time to work out your rescue strategy so you may not be successful the first couple times. But I have a hard time believing Germany will leave their fleet in range of Russia's three fighters if they know how your going to use them.
It's definitely a novel idea.

Some weaker points to your plan:

1) Germany may still try to hit AES on G1 without the BB/tpt. They could trade a ftr for UK ftr, add to the med fleet G1 and come back to AES strong G2.

2). Or, depends on how many ground units Russia has left after R1 combat, I might bail from africa with Germany and push strong on Russia. Adding only 4 ground units with a poor R1 could be used against you.

[psychotropic]

Russian fighters are far more valuable then the German fleet in the Med. Germany can rebuild that fleet for 24 IPC's (16 for an AC and 8 for a tranny) and with two fighters on it and Germany is back at it. Those fighters are imperative for taking dead zones and without them Russia is in trouble.

Your assessment that do it just once and Germany will never take Egypt again is not accurate. The consequences of not taking Egypt G1 is more than that of losing a German BB and TR.

I agree that the fighters are more valuable than the med fleet. But are they more valuable than the med fleet, plus a stall of reinforcing Africa, plus the replacement cost of the fleet, plus not having to worry about an amphibious invasion of Caucuss, plus the decreased cost/ turns to the allies of holding africa.

I also think Germany has to spend more than 24ipc's to rebuild the fleet. The allies can have a couple bombers(3 if Uk buys another) and at least one fighter (not including russia's) in range. The allies can afford to trade bombers for fighters. By the time germany's next turn arrives they have to rebuild again. Now they're replacing fleet and planes. This means they are not supporting their northern fleet operations and still havn't reinforced africa.

You might have a point though. Not taking Egypt has left the Uk quite powerful in their defence of India and causes more headaches for Japan. Next time I play i will sacrifice the fleet (I know my buddy will hit me with his 3 fighters) and see what happens. This begs the question- does knowing the fleet will be gone make Africa corps a stronger NA

[psychotropic]

It's definitely a novel idea.

Some weaker points to your plan:

1) Germany may still try to hit AES on G1 without the BB/tpt. They could trade a ftr for UK ftr, add to the med fleet G1 and come back to AES strong G2.

2). Or, depends on how many ground units Russia has left after R1 combat, I might bail from africa with Germany and push strong on Russia. Adding only 4 ground units with a poor R1 could be used against you.

As to your first point. I haven't had much luck with taking egypt without the extra guy and tank. Too iffy. Also any money that germany spends in the med is money not spent elsewhere. What are you not going to buy that you usually do. Your second point is more in line with what I've experienced and it is difficult for Russia. But I've found that the allies can pressure germany rather quickly when they don't have to pump guys into africa.

Normally I have taken the BB and tranny on the Uk BB and drop a guy in Gibralter to prevent anything more than a UK bomber from hitting me. I leave the sub in sea zone 8 to limit UK reinforcement of Africa. It also puts the fleet in range of the allies fleet if their not careful and provides an opportunity to link the fleets.