Fortress America Mapview module

[Der Panzinator]

I am working on a Fortress America Mapview module and thought I would post some links here for feedback.

***6/24
(The module is now completed and a couple of games are already in progress!) :)

Here is a link to the map I will be using:

http://axisdomain.0catch.com/Fortress_America_map.gif

***Here is a link to the Mapview module: (6/24/2004)
http://axisdomain.0catch.com/Fortress_America.udm

Please double-check the names and such to make sure that I haven't made any errors. I have included an image of the game card and a list of the US cards. There is also reinforcement boxes to keep track of how many units are remaining for each side.

If anyone has a better scan of the game reference card then let me know. Otherwise I'll probably try to redo it manually.

I should have a user module ready soon, but for now I just wanted to make sure the map is okay.

[ June 08, 2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Der Panzinator ]

[Der Panzinator]

Couple of things that I remember that still need to be done.

I started making the region borders but didn't get very far. You can see a thick line in part of the Southern region.

I have used a naming convention that I believe an online club devised for the unnamed territories. Any suggestions or comments on these?

I will try to see if Rich has time to create a dice roller on Wargamersclub.org. I haven't played in so long that I'll probably need some advice on dice issues from anyone who has played recently.

The one main thing I'm not certain about is the map color. What does everyone think about the green and brown territory scheme?

Here is a screen shot of the beta module.

http://axisdomain.0catch.com/FAsc1.gif

[elbowmaster]

nice job as always DerPanzinator !!

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[Sinister]

Very Cool

[Der Panzinator]

Take another look at the map and see what you think of the reference card. I redid it from scratch but made it look identical to the original. It is very clean looking now.

Rich will start working on a dice roller soon and he said he would probably even be able to setup a random card generator that will remember used cards based on game number. :cool:

[elbowmaster]

i agree, looking great !!

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[Der Panzinator]

Just added the regions and labeled the invasion zones. Should be pretty much done now.

[plasticman]

I really like the work you have done here. We sure have some talented people on these boards, and you have proved yourself to be one of them. Excellent!

[ June 04, 2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Freeloader ]

[Der Panzinator]

Well, everything is pretty much done. I added a link to the module on the first post of this thread.
Here it is again just in case:
http://axisdomain.0catch.com/Fortress_America.udm

[elbowmaster]

Originally posted by Jonathan Freeloader:
I really like the work you have done here. We sure have some talented people on these boards, and you have proved yourself to be one of them. Excellent!i agree, DerPanzinator is my favorite axis & allies graphic artist...his work and time is evident in the quality he produces !!

keep up the good work!!

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[simply4est]

DP, this is great!! - thanks to your once again awesome contribution to MMV!

[DY]

Der Panzinator you are a legend. I just dloaded your FA.udm and it looks very saucy. Be sure to give us a heads up when Rich gets the FA roller happening :p

[holywolfman]

Yeah- GREAT JOB! Looks awesome- :D

[Der Panzinator]

I guess I should post a link to the roller, shouldn't I.... :rolleyes:

Rich has had the roller completed for a while but I just forgot to provide the link.
Here it is:
http://www.wargamersclub.org/FA/diceroller.jsp

The recommended method is to send an email to info@wargamersclub.org (info@wargamersclub.org) and specify email addresses and name alias (if needed) and a game number and link will be provided to all participants. This is the only way to easily track US reinforcement card use. (Yes, this is possible. Thanks go out to Rich for setting this up.)

I haven't tried a game yet since I've been so busy but if anyone gets a chance then please let us all know how things go.

I would like to maybe get in a game but can't promise I'll be able to get turns done quickly. ;)

[Der Panzinator]

It has been pointed out that Denver is missing it's city graphic in the new module. If you start a game before I get it fixed then just drop one of the cities on Denver for now.
All of the city territories have green cities to indicate US ownership on top of the map image of white cities which will represent captured cities.
When one of the invaders takes over a US city you should just delete the green city icon. For now you will need to leave Denver city icon.

Hmmm.... I think I just over-explained this... :rolleyes:

How about I just fix it now instead. :D

[Der Panzinator]

Okay, I just updated the module to include the Denver city icon.
You can download it at the same link:
http://axisdomain.0catch.com/Fortress_America.udm

[DY]

GROGnads you need "Mot's Mapview" to open te .udm file.
Simply copy the file into the "usermods" subdirectory. Hey I'm keen to play once you get it working, if you no longer have my email shoot me a PM.

[Der Panzinator]

Grognads,

DY is correct. You need to download and install MotCreations Mapview first. The udm module is just a file that contains all of the graphics, map, etc. for each game. Here is a link to Mapview program:
http://www.motcreations.com/downloads/mv1216fullmsi.exe

This is the full install which is about 11 meg. If you don't have a decent link then there is a smaller download if you need it.
Once you get it installed copy the Fortress America udm file into c:\program files\Motcreations\Mapview\usermods.


btw,
I did get a look at your pieces at Aaron's house. I happened to make it down last week while I was on some business travel. ;)

I liked the rockets a lot. We weren't quite sure how you did it. The best pieces of course were the bunkers. :cool:
So if we were correct it looked like you used Monopoly houses and hotels to make them... :confused:
You must have looked like a mad scientist melting those Monopoly pieces together wearing a welding mask and gloves while listening to Wagner's "Die Valkyrie". Mmmwwwaahahahaha....... :D

[DY]

Der Panzinator, I noticed you had Invader control markers but not the (reverse side IRL) "battle markers" in your module. I think you really need to add these.

[Der Panzinator]

DY,

Actually I was wondering about that. With Mapview you designate combat by drawing arrows into territories you want to attack. Then you save and send the map to your opponent before rolling dice. Not sure if it is really neccessary to have the battle markers but maybe I'll add them just to keep it the same as the game. Most people will probably opt not to use them since it is just an additional object to drag on to the map.

Hey DY, want to try a game? Theres no better way to fish out all the mistakes then actually playing a game.
If so then you'll need to give me an email address and I'll get Rich to set us up a game.

[Der Panzinator]

I wonder if laser markers are neccessary too?
I didn't make any of these but it might be nice to have them.

Any opinions? Guess a test game will iron out any PBEM procedures.

[DY]

Yes laser markers and battle markers would give the game a more complete feel. You are a legend by the way.

I've been looking forward to genuine FA PBEM play for a long time. I think FA is still my favourite beer and pretzels war game (I also have Shogun, MB AA, AAE, AAP, AAR, Diplomacy and original History of the World [which sounds superior to the new version])

It's dynamic and very closely balanced. I feel it's probably 55% USA 45% Invaders, possibly even tighter than that.

What do others think of play balance?

[Krieghund]

I think your numbers are about right.

[Der Panzinator]

Alright, who's up for a game?

The more I look at this module the more I want to try out a game. I'd be willing to play either invader's or USA. Or if we can get four players then that would be cool too.

What say thee!!! :cool:

[simply4est]

I'd like to get in on a game - I think multiplayer would be most awesome, but either way is fine with me.

[DY]

Yeah I'm keen! What about those saucy little laser and battle markers DP?

[Krieghund]

I'm in....

[Der Panzinator]

I just updated the module with the "saucy" laser and battle icons. ;)

I believe we should be ready to go.
Looks like we already have four interested players.
Anyone partial to a particular player?
I recall always liking to play the Western invader and it may make sense to let me go first so everyone can see how the turns work out. Although I guess US actually has to place its units first...

Any suggestions on who plays what?
I'll also need everyone's email address so I can get a game setup. You can either send me a private message or send me an email to maxvertigo@yahoo.com

btw,
Yahoo email has just upgraded its free email to 100 megs of storage. Just thought I'd let you know.

Right now it looks like we have

Der Panzinator
DY
simply4est
Krieghund

[elbowmaster]

im in..!!

just have to get some things together at the CASA...

-cheers

-elbowmaster

elbowsanchez@elbowmaster.com

[Krieghund]

I don't really care which side I play - I'm flexible.

[Der Panzinator]

Looks like we might be able to get a couple games going. :)

Elbowmaster provided his email and I was able to get Krieghund's off his profile. How about we start a game with Krieghund as US, me as Western, Elbowmaster as Southern, and whoever wants to play Eastern can shoot me an email or post here.
I'd like to get a game started today before the weekend starts. I'll probably be pretty busy but once things are started it should move along fairly easily.

Actually for now I'll get a game number from Rich and just use my email for the Eastern invader and we can always change it later... I think. :confused:

Elbow and Krieghund, make sure you download the latest module. It has the laser and battle icons.

[Krieghund]

OK - I can probably send you my unit deployment this evening.

[Der Panzinator]

Looks like Rich has already gotten a game number setup.
We can replace the Eastern player later once we confirm who will fill the position.

Krieghund,
I sent a map file to everyone with a USA_Setup map added. If you just place your pieces and send the file back to everyone we can get rolling.

Looks like to draw a US card you can just use the drop down list and select "draw card". This should be tracked by game number.

[Der Panzinator]

Krieghund,

You must have posted right before I did. :rolleyes:

This should be a blast!!! :D

There is still a slot for the Eastern invader for anyone who wants it.
I know DY and simply4est were both interested so if either one of you guys want in then let me know.

I think we could probably setup a second game so we can all get started. :)

[DY]

I'll shoot DP and EM an email. It might be best if I play in game #2 since I live in Australia (GMT +9:30) so it might be hard to plan turns with you all.

In my Axis PBEM games against North Americans, I find we can squeeze in up to one full round per day, with moves when I get up and when I go to bed (which corresponds to you going to bed and you getting up).

I will play game #1 if the other dude doesn't show up, but putting me as an invader will probably slow the game up too much.

[Der Panzinator]

Not to worry DY. I don't think this will be fast paced no matter what we do since we have 4 players.

I have 2 kids that keep me from getting much of anything done in the evenings, and work doesn't especially want me to play games on the clock... :rolleyes:

I'm sure this will be a long game but that is actually better for me anyway.
I replied back to your email already and had Rich change the Eastern player to your email address.

Cheers! ;)

[Krieghund]

Slow is fine with me. :cool:

[elbowmaster]

i have a couple more hours of work... :(


i will get all ready when i get on my machine at home!!

if im the hold up, go ahead and start...

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[DY]

I sent you an email suggesting you are missing an oil resource in the mountains near Memphis. You might want to check that. From memory I think it should be in "CKy"

[DY]

Bah, that's it -- it's 6am and I'm going to collapse! Check your email DP, I sent you a long-term strategy discussion. Speak to you guys later.

[Der Panzinator]

DY,
You're right about the missing oil. And it is the CKy territory. I sent an email that I can fix this without disrupting the current game.
No biggie. It's little things like this that I really wanted to shake out by playing this game. ;)

I did read through your strategy and thought it was very well thought out. Feels a bit sneaky when its 3 against 1 to discuss strategy that involves all players. :rolleyes:
I think you should post it after the game is over since it really addresses the invaders options very clearly. You must have played quite a few FA games in the past, or you stayed up WAY too late staring at the map and thinking about various strategies in the land down under. :D

Grognads,
Keep us informed about the new pieces.

You should get a game together and see how you like the Mapview module. You can set up the game board and do Mapview at the same time. I have actually used Mapview to save long FTF games that were getting really good but ran out of time. Beats trying to wright it all down...


Back to my turn. The Western invaders are preparing to crash into the West Coast!!! :cool:

[Der Panzinator]

Well I finished Western invader turn one. So far, so good....
Perhaps after the end of each turn I'll post the game file so everyone can see how things are working out.
Might also be a good idea to start a new thread for each new game.
I think starting a second game would be cool if there are enough interested. I know that at least one person missed out on game one and would play in game two.

[Der Panzinator]

I added the missing oil to Central Kentucky. Hopefully that will be the last change...
The module has been updated and is ready for download.

[DY]

Hey I've found a slight problem with the roller. Occasionally you will actually choose to remove an infantry if you score a hit with a mech unit in defense, to deny the attacker combined arms. How are we going to deal with such situations?

[DY]

Hey I've found a slight problem with the roller. Occasionally you will actually choose to remove an infantry if you score a hit with a mech unit in defense, to deny the attacker combined arms. How are we going to deal with such situations?

Oh yeah, I'm not able to visualise plans that far ahead DP, my strategy is based on playing about two dozen FTF games.

[DY]

Another problem with the mapview is the inability to select "zero" as a legitimate number for reincforcements. For example the USA should currently have no mobile, hovertanks, choppers or bombers in their reinforcement pool.

I suspect this is a "mapview" problem that you can't fix. However, if you could fix it, I think it's going to seriously improve PBEM play.

[Krieghund]

Hey I've found a slight problem with the roller. Occasionally you will actually choose to remove an infantry if you score a hit with a mech unit in defense, to deny the attacker combined arms. How are we going to deal with such situations?

Due to the three-tiered nature of FA combat, it may be necessary to let the defender roll his own dice in battles with mixed unit classes. Since each class's results are resolved before moving to the next, you may want to roll just air units first and decide the casualties/retreats before moving on to armor, etc. It looks like the roller will support this through "defender only" and "attacker only" options, though a bit of manual intervention will be required. (Entering only your air units and rolling, entering only your armor and rolling, etc.)

[DY]

Sounds a bit retarded to me in terms pf speed of play, but it may be the best approach to take.

[Krieghund]

I agree that it would be clunky, but one of the unique aspects of the FA combat system is its three-tiered approach. By removing it and rolling all dice at once, you change the nature of it.

One example I can think of right off: the defender has a tank and an infantry, and the attacker has a bomber, 2 tanks and 2 infantry. If the defending tank hits, the defender must weigh killing an attacking tank versus killing an infantry and taking a chance that the infantry will also hit and kill the other one, eliminating the attacker's combined arms. If you roll both units at once, the defender has the knowledge of whether both were hits before choosing casualties.

This is a subtle point, but it is part of the unique flavor of the game. The question is, how much of the game's mechanics do you sacrifice for speed of play? Just something to consider.

[DY]

Yes, I agree, in any battle where there is the potential to deny combined arms by killing a "lesser" unit, we should wait for the defender to roll dice, in order of class, placing his chosen casualties in the "comments" box on the next roll if he does wish to kill an infantry instead of a tank in the above example.

If he writes no comment then simply assume he kills the best unit he can.

If he chooses to roll all dice at once, then he must choose the "best" units he can, otherwise as you pointed out he is gaining information that wouldn't have been available to him if he rolled the dice in order.

[Der Panzinator]

OOL (order of losses) is something that A&A has had to contend with as well. There are times when you would prefer to loss a fighter before losing like say a transport.
To indicate this players usually put an OOL note on the territory with with a short note or a more detailed paragraph.
If its really important and too complicated then simply put a contact me note for OOL.

[Krieghund]

Thanks, GROGnads!

[simply4est]

Has there been anything further on another game of FA (with this Mapview module) starting up?

[DY]

Our MapView game is going very slowly. Still yet to have my 2nd turn as Eastern Invader,

[simply4est]

"Our MapView game is going very slowly. Still yet to have my 2nd turn as Eastern Invader,"

So obviously, y'all should start a second Mapview game of FA, lol, just kidding, don't mean to rush anyone. I'm perfectly happy to wait for a just-right time for a game start that's good with everyone. Just thought I'd mention once I get going I keep a pretty good pace with Mapview - just mentioning in passing, lolol...

[DY]

I'll plsy 1v1 but I'm pretty annoyed at the delays in a 3v1 waiting for my Allies to make a move for like a week at a time. Ask Richy to set a game up if you like. He has all my details. PM me and I'll send you my email address.

[Der Panzinator]

Anyone heard from Elbowmaster?
I thought he was stepping back in for S2 turn.

Elbowmaster, where are you..... :confused:

[simply4est]

Ok DY, I'll PM you for a game, although I'm still hoping for a 4-player Mapview one. But, yes, two should be much faster. I'm in some multiplayer games now with other games where there have been 3 and 4 week delays, lol. It's just tricky with multiple peoples' schedules and happenings to keep everyone on track.

[DY]

OK I've emailed Richy to set our game up and you should hear from him shortly. I have PMed you with my details.

You need to send one map out after you complete all of the following phases: reinforcements, declare battles, first movement (use red arrows to indicate which dudes are fighting in which territories)

Then send another map out after the final phase (capture territories is the correct term iI think)

If you have used mapview before for A&A you shouldn't have any problems.

[DY]

OK I'm USA, email sent with my initial USA placements!

[simply4est]

Thanks DY,

Received the emails and I should have something back to you likely later today.

Forest

[DY]

Waiting for your response to my stuff up on the USA card draws before proceeding.

[simply4est]

It's been responded to.

[DY]

Roger that!

2 bonus cards on USA1 thanks to a tidy "little legions of liberty" draw!

[Motdc]

Another problem with the mapview is the inability to select "zero" as a legitimate number for reincforcements. For example the USA should currently have no mobile, hovertanks, choppers or bombers in their reinforcement pool.

I suspect this is a "mapview" problem that you can't fix. However, if you could fix it, I think it's going to seriously improve PBEM play.


Hey DP, if you want a unit in MapView to have a numeric range starting
at 0, use a unit type of "Numeric" instead of "Quantity". That will address
the concern noted here.

Happy Gaming,
Mot

[DY]

Richy if you are stil reading this thread there are some issues with your FA roller. I have sent you 2 emails about this over the past week but have received no response.

1) When infantry score a hit and no enemy infantry are present your roller incorrectly chooses an aire unit as a casualty rather than a mech unit

2) Destroyed units are resolved before Retreated/Disengaged units. All air units throw their dice together then all mech units then all infantry units, resolving casualties after each of these three rolls.

The problem with your roller is that as soon as the last enemy unit is disengaged/retreated the other units don't roll any dice in an attempt to score a kill.

Example: (A) 1 inf 2 Heli 5 Bmb vs (D) 1 Hover

Defender rolls a "5" killing a bomber in your roller. The attacking piece that should be killed is the infantry.

Attacker rolls for the 2 Heli yielding "4" & "1"

Your roller then stops rolling, satisfied that the battle is resolved.

INCORRECT :eek:

In an F2F game all 5 bombers would also roll and any "hits" would be resolved before that retreat. At the moment we have to manually re-roll for those bombers, which can be quite annoying, particularly if another "1" comes up before a "5+"

Any response would be appreciated :rolleyes:

DY

[DY]

Bump for RichyJ :)

[Anzio]

Hey Guys,

I have not been around in awhile, but glad to see major interest being stirred up for FA. It is a great game that needs to be revived.

Thoes426, Holywolfman, GrogNADS and myself are currently involved in a 4-man email/telephone/chatrrom game of FA using actual boards and pieces. It has been a great experience to play in 4 different time zones and I highly recommend the experience. If you can find people you trust, use the "honor system" and just roll the dice/move the pieces on the actual game. An accurate game can be played with a little record-keeping and a digital camera! Not to take away from DP's efforts - I am sure that the high-tech version is great, too!

ANyway, check out my post here in the OOP forum - I am about to do something very nasty to GrogNADs forces that will be long remembered!

Steve Wood
Strafing Run Games

[Der Panzinator]

I've sent an email to Rich to see if he can check on the roller bugs. I'm sure he'll get any issues resolved very quickly. I linked this thread and particularly DY's post.
I don't believe Rich normally frequents this particular area.

Anzio,
How did your killer death blow go last night???

[richyj1]

Yes, I am aware of the complaints

[Anzio]

My killer death blow has been thwarted due to my own ignorance of the rules!

(see other thread)

@#$%!

Steve

[DY]

Yes, I am aware of the complaints


Thanks for updating the roller Richy. Two thumbs up mate! :cool:

[deslock]

Thanks for making this module!

I was lucky enough to find a used copy of Fortress ~10 years ago... it's been a long time since I played, but I liked it the best of the GameMaster series.

My take on balance is this: it favors the invaders *if* they kow what they're doing and have a unified strategy (or are played by a single experienced player). However, the USA player has the advantage if the invaders do not coordinate their moves or if they make just a couple mistakes. Like with all the Gamemaster series, dice rolls (and in this case, cards as well) can easily tip the balance.

I won't have time to play for a couple weeks, but add me to the list of people interested in PBEM.

[Einherje]

Are there any activity here now for people who want to play Fortress America? This is on my Top 3 list of all time, but where I am we are not that many players that know this game. So when I found this, it was like I struck gold.

[deslock]

Einherje and I finished a game; was a lot of fun. Anyone else interested?

Happy Holidays!

[Enderson]

I know you hear it a lot Der Panzinator, but great work!

[Der Panzinator]

Thank you.
I actually get a lot of entertainment out of making maps, rules, and game modules. I rarely even play any games anymore... :eek: