Worth the $$ [Archive] - Avalon Hill Boards

Keldar

05-02-2005, 04:19 PM

I love the concept of this game. I'd love to make big monster footprints all over the place, but the price-tag is rather steep. I'm not sure I can justify buying this game...

Any opinions to help me make my decision?

Absolutely worth it if you enjoy playing games. If you are just a casual gamer who pulls out a game twice or three times a year when company comes over.....then maybe not.

We received our game in the mail last Friday, we played Saturday night, Sunday night, and will be playing it later tonight. That alone accounts for 3.5 to 4 hours of fun, x3 people. Where else can you do that for $31.50???(including shipping even) :D

maelic001

05-02-2005, 04:59 PM

Found it at the local Toys R Us for $26...

deltabob

05-02-2005, 06:04 PM

Thanks all. I may look online. I'd love to support my local brick and mortar shop, but it's 54.50 there.

Keldar

05-02-2005, 07:09 PM

Found it at the local Toys R Us for $26...

:eek: That's great!!!!

Keldar

05-02-2005, 07:12 PM

Thanks all. I may look online. I'd love to support my local brick and mortar shop, but it's 54.50 there.

I have the same problem where I live. I can't pay 80% more per game to support even my favorite local comic/game store. I'll buy from them what's reasonable when compared to the market, and buy online or mass market retail for the outrageous stuff.

TrimChris

05-02-2005, 07:26 PM

Found it at the local Toys R Us for $26...

TRU online is $45.

holywolfman

05-02-2005, 08:16 PM

....All I have to say....we played a few games now (5)...and WE Just Love it!
It is a Blast to play! (many strategy decisions to make on your turn: DO I make a run for a mutation...? Do I grab an Infamy at the Las Vegas Strip for some re-roll attempts...? Do I worry about the nuke missiles from the Navy subs heading my way?....Do I just go for broke and attack Chicago and just stomp it to bits to make myself bigger.....? This game ROCKS!!!- :D

..I say grab this game!...(before they have to remake it a 3rd time-lol)

maelic001

05-03-2005, 05:05 AM

TRU online is $45.

Not sure if someone isn't paying attention when they enter prices into the computer at my local Toys R Us or what, but this isn't the first time I've gotten a good deal there. I picked up a copy of Heroscape from them for only $9.99 a few months back.

Da Black Gobo

05-03-2005, 08:40 AM

I payed the $45 retail to my local shop. This was a big deal to me because of my gun shy attitude towards AH. They have been so poor with support and bad testing, I wasn't sure I would buy another game from this company. But, I was plesantly surprise at a high quality game with a fairly clear rule book.

So far, there has been only a couple of small rule questions I believe that need to be addressed. A one big clarification, which I think I know the answer to.

All in all, it is a excellent game with potental for a expansion or two if AH, does it right (not holding my breath on that one).

Sean

holywolfman

05-03-2005, 05:01 PM

....Yeah: I agree as well!- :D

Canadian Pittbull

05-04-2005, 02:58 PM

This game has a pretty steep price tag depending on where you get it. However, (like many have already made comments about) if you play this game heavily you will pretty much get back what you forked out for it in the long run and if you have kids around it is a great way to spend an evening as opposed to watching a flick or playing video games.

We try to set some time aside for a family gaming night and well this game is great for that!! Very awesome game and well worth what you pay for it. ;)

rockox

05-06-2005, 11:51 AM

$68 up here in Canada. Haven't played yet, but I'm diggin' the big chunky monsters pieces...

mk31bolo

06-04-2005, 09:53 PM

$45 at my gaming store and worth every penny. :)

Robotron

06-19-2005, 08:20 PM

$49.99 at my local store (in Canada)
and $54.99 at their "other" location. Not a bad price at all.
The pricing was the same with Nexus Ops (which I picked up).

D6veteran

01-11-2006, 11:13 AM

It's a fun game. I got it for free from a friend who works for Hasbro. I think it is slightly overpriced as you don't get a single extra piece in case you lose say a tank. And you need all the pieces.

Fun fun game though. They did a great job of capturing the spirit of the Giant Monster movie genre.

Imperious leader

02-19-2006, 10:57 PM

Better idea: Buy fortress america.. then goto the toy store and buy a bag of plastic ants... This gives you two games. One you know.. the other is a varient of the movie "Them!" place the starting ants in new mexico with a "queen ant" and up to 2 other queen ants off the board. Each queen can either move or lay ants equal to the roll of 2 d6 use all other rules. each ant hits on a 6, queens hit on a 6+ (on a 8 sided die). Queens move 4 spaces, while ants move 2 spaces. Also the queen ant can create a "nest" that allows and new queen to be built.This takes one turn to complete.When a queen moves it can also have 2 "escorts" of regular ants that move with it to protect the queen. The Human forces only consist of the green team and not the other 3 invaders. The game rules are in other respects the same as fortress america which also ends after the 7th turn. So the ants have to take 18 cities to win by 7. play it its fun. IF your even more weird buy a couple of plastic spiders for a "wild card" piece that can either kill humans or other ants.

One more thing .. make sure the movie is in the backround.Either that or that "grasshopper" one they made.

boylermaker

02-21-2006, 04:53 PM

If you've bought Fortress America, I'm not so sure you should be spending your time with plastic ants. . . It's way to cool a game for that.

But to each his own, I suppose, even if it approaches sacrilege.

Imperious leader

02-22-2006, 08:23 PM

I was comparing how much better that game is to "monsters" But if some peeps wanted to get the sci-fi fix with giant monsters...those "ants" was one way to go that is pretty fun.

TrimChris

02-23-2006, 06:35 AM

MMA is pretty fun for what it is.

Imperious leader

02-24-2006, 07:58 PM

I played it and it blows... I thought its was kinda cool.. but its too casual.. too much la-dee-da about it. Perhaps the comic book thing about it is catered for children who like play school toys?

TrimChris

02-24-2006, 10:46 PM

I think casual was the intended design. It met that criteria well.

boylermaker

02-26-2006, 10:55 AM

I played it and it blows... I thought its was kinda cool.. but its too casual.. too much la-dee-da about it.
I guess if you don't like casual games, it's probably not up your alley. But as a casual game, it's excellent. I have to wonder though, what kind of game were you expecting if not a casual one?

Imperious leader

02-28-2006, 12:04 PM

J.L.Robert

03-01-2006, 04:32 PM

Yep thats about it... Avalon Hill used to represent games with meat in the "concept" of the game... now its all Saturday morning comics catered to children... did somebody say "casual"?
Its like we used to games that were like the movie "The longest Day" and now we get "Pearl Harbor" starring Ben affleck and J'Lo's ass as the carrier Akagi. Thats exactly what AH has become in a nutshell. IMNSHO.

All this complaining. And yet, he's still here...

If you're longing for the old, thousands-of-counters boardgames, then enjoy them. Old does not mean unplayable. If you need new, turn to Decision or GMT or Avalanche Press. I've heard wonderful things about the Panzer Grenadier series of games (I haven't had the opportunity to learn them myself, however).

It may be difficult to accept, but AH is not the company it used to be, nor will it ever go back. Continually griping about the "good, ol' days" won't change things, unfortunately. Now, if someone can present a well-structured, thought out action plan to produce, market and distribute high-complexity military simulations on a mass-market scale (think...how to sell them by at every Toys 'R' Us), they might listen. But until then, you'll have to stick to Avalon Hill's "Classics" for your wargaming needs from this company.

Imperious leader

03-01-2006, 09:04 PM

"It may be difficult to accept, but AH is not the company it used to be, nor will it ever go back."

If you do not embrace your past you are doomed to fail... SPI did it back about 1989 or so... They went in that bold new direction and they dont exist anymore. Those companies you mentioned have brought back some glory but... what made avalon hill different was that the games were not very difficult to play. Of course they had some real hard games, but what made them great was those under 8 pages of rules games. Games that had character and charm.. that were able to be replayed again.. What they do now is follow the "glitter"... whatever the fad.. you can be sure Avalon Hill is a top 40 game company... with no soul to reach from....Eventually the top 40 mentality becomes like all those radio stations that did that... gone...

J.L.Robert

03-02-2006, 04:29 PM

But, again, game companies can't make it producing games that will sell only 10-20,000 copies.

And wargamers themselves are so fragmented--some want all the realism that can be crammed into 48 pages, even if it takes 50 hours to play. Others want 4 pages or less, a game that can be taught to a newcomer and played in under 90 minutes. Some will ONLY play World War II battles, while some will play only Ancients.

It makes is extremely difficult to market a game with a broad-enough appeal to sell sufficient units. That's why several game companies have their "subscriber" programs, where a consumer commits to a game title and the company not producing it until they get sufficient feedback to justify putting the game into print.

Not everybody can appreciate fine things. Hand-crafted beers are exceptional, yet more people buy Budweiser. The game industry is now a very similar market. While some people can appreciate a rich, detailed and complex game covering any topic under the Sun, the industry needs to turn profit, so they have to design games with broader appeal (read: dumbed-down, more simplistic, less militaristic games).

Imperious leader

03-02-2006, 10:06 PM

"Not everybody can appreciate fine things. Hand-crafted beers are exceptional, yet more people buy Budweiser. The game industry is now a very similar market. While some people can appreciate a rich, detailed and complex game covering any topic under the Sun, the industry needs to turn profit, so they have to design games with broader appeal (read: dumbed-down, more simplistic, less militaristic games)."

That post speaks volumes!... just take all those "dumb" games you mentioned:
1) Nexus woops
2) Robo retreat
3) Betrayal of the avalon hill house
4) Sword of the unskilled
5) Vegas Slowdown

Now in every case these games are :

1) not found at outlets that sell "beer"... if you read between the lines im saying they ARE NOT SOLD at wall mart or toys R us...they are located still in hobby stores which cater to the great unwashed who spend every dime on "wargames" and probably sleep with them...So your "budweiser" thing isnt reaching the target audience..
2) I would love to see how the sales figures of all these games combined compare in terms of units sold to "The Third Reich" which we can agree represents the pinicle of very hard games to play..
3) I bet you that those 5 games sell very poorly.. If they represent your "new guard" and the future of the avalon hill game company, then that future in on the rocks... and soon avalon hill will have a new owner, as whoever owns it will sell it just to unload it like so many dirty diapers.
4) Yea.. you keep making glorious "Nexus" style games and the end is much closer than when they those "militaristic" games of yesteryear-
5) i missed "cosmic encounter" thats another dud..

Imperious leader

03-02-2006, 10:18 PM

* The average gamer was predominately male and well educated.
* 75% had attended some college.
* 34% of the players were professionals.
* 42% read Scientific American regularly and 24% read Marvel comics.
* 36% belonged to book clubs.
* 50% played the games solitaire.
* The average gamer owned 50 or more games and spent 16 to 20 hours per month gaming.
* Younger players indulged in very complex games and complained that many of the games were too simple. Their periods of choice were WWI and WWII.
* Older gamers preferred shorter, less complex games in the Ancients or Medieval periods.
* The average gamer was considered to be very well read and wargaming became known as "the hobby for the overeducated".

This is the true gamers demographic and this does not equate with the types of games that are currently being made by AH.

boylermaker

03-05-2006, 11:27 AM

Where are these statistics from?

Imperious leader

03-05-2006, 11:49 AM

survey in games magazine.

J.L.Robert

03-06-2006, 06:45 PM

The average gamer is not average consumer. Hasbro tries to market to the average consumer.

Look, I'm not trying to say you are wrong or that AH is some great company. However, just putting down their products is not going to make them change their business strategy.

Imperious leader

03-06-2006, 08:19 PM

I only state the obvious... If they are great i will say so.. If nobody complains then no change is possible and all you have is YES men watching a floundering companies demise.

The Axis and Allies line is exceptional, except some quality issues from revised were not polished enough IMO.

Risk 2210 seems like a great game

The rest ... well... it speaks for itself.. In every case you will not get any "expansions" because they only do this for games that are good and sell well...

On that note: Diplomacy is an old Key games product, bought by Avalon Hill in the early 60's so i cant give them credit.

In Axis and Allies case they also took an old idea, but they have made greater strides than what seemed possible and thats wonderful. Its the very reason why i design games dealing with the same structure of ideas.Axis and Allies is the diamond amoung games.

boylermaker

03-12-2006, 12:56 PM

Can you tell me a little bit more about this survey?

First: is it voluntary response? E.g, did it include a poll with its magazines to fill out and mail in, or have a survey on its website? Because if it did, the data is worthless; that type of survey would produce the data you give every time, no matter what the population.

Second: if it is not voluntary response, what do they define as a "gamer?"

Imperious leader

03-13-2006, 08:08 PM

I have no idea.. i just repeat the results. It probably was a mail in thing, because who in the hell is gonna call you at home and ask. "hey do you play games? which one?" But in general i know that the gamers want either History or Fantasy and "rocketville et al" is in neither category"

Ah need to move away from WW2 and do a ww1, napolean , ACW, Ancients theme game. Just take an old title and revamp it. IT allready had a proven track record. Whats wrong with Panzerblitz or Panzer Leader? How bout VITP or Stalingrad with Axis and Allies pieces. All these games allready have fans built over 30 years... Why take a game like "nexus" and make a bunch of plastic molds which are very expensive investing alot of capital only to bust out in the end? Instead of Monsters america, how bout take "Fortress America" and redo that like Conquest of the Empire. How much would it cost to make more pieces? Allready you got a baseline support as anybody who has this game will buy a copy.. just like all the Star Wars fans see the next installment of rubbish. Just make games with a proven track record instead of making new tracks thats all.