A&A Minis distribution

[maelic001]

If AH were to change the distribution of the upcoming A&A minis game to a more non-collectible format (ala Heroscape or Warhammer) would you be more apt to buy them?

[Moderator Sinister]

If AH were to change the distribution of the upcoming A&A minis game to a more non-collectible format (ala Heroscape or Warhammer) would you be more apt to buy them?

It may be a good idea for those that don't know heroscape or warhammer to point out the different aspects. Techinically warhammer is collectible. For those that don't understand here's what we are talking about.

To purchase warhammer minis you walk into the store and select the exact miniatures you want. There is NO randomness. the game itself has finite amounts of units meaning there is about 12-15 kinds of units per army. Thus if you need to field a unit of wood elf scouts you go out and buy a blister of wood elf scouts Unlike a game like mage knight in which you purchase a box without seeing what's inside hoping to get wood elf scouts.

So the issue is randomness vs. knowing what you are going to buy.

[Der Panzinator]

To clarify the way that Heroscape works, (which I think would work best for the new A&AM game.)

You buy the big box full of pieces and have what is basically a stand alone game that can be enjoyed for years to come with no extra pieces required.
Then for those who enjoy getting new add-ons there is the expansion packs that come out with several pieces that are sold as "non-random" booster packs.

Heroscape is very popular already and is sold in many of the big retailers. A check on boardgame geeks website always shows it in the top 10 popular games since it was released.
Given the popularity of Axis & Allies and that they already have market presense in many of the large retail stores, they should be able to follow the same marketing strategy and be very successful.
Plus it would obviously make many of the old-timer A&A players much more likely to try it out if they choose to make non-random boosters.

Avalon Hill or WoTC are you listening to anything that is being discussed on these boards??? :confused:

There is a lot of preliminary feedback that you should be taking into account here. ;)

[mhensley]

There should be a fourth option in the poll- No, I like collectable games.

[TrimChris]

There should be a fourth option in the poll- No, I like collectable games.

Or an option that you're undecided until you actually see the product.

[Da Black Gobo]

It may be a good idea for those that don't know heroscape or warhammer to point out the different aspects. Techinically warhammer is collectible. For those that don't understand here's what we are talking about.

To purchase warhammer minis you walk into the store and select the exact miniatures you want. There is NO randomness. the game itself has finite amounts of units meaning there is about 12-15 kinds of units per army. Thus if you need to field a unit of wood elf scouts you go out and buy a blister of wood elf scouts Unlike a game like mage knight in which you purchase a box without seeing what's inside hoping to get wood elf scouts.

So the issue is randomness vs. knowing what you are going to buy.

You and I might have to disagree. It is more than just randomness. I was a playtester for a different collectible game for over a year, and I learn a thing or two about the collectible game hive mind at work within the companies. First every collectible game made thus far will have rare chase figures. It is the driving force behind sales. Second, every expansion must have better models that the last, or sales will slump. It has been that way with the mindset of the designers of ALL collectible games made, and it most likely will continue with this one.

[Sinister]

No gobo I agree with you in the case of expansions. Warhammer doesn't suffer from expansions but they do suffer from revised rules and army books every decade. Also they eliminate armies sometimes (like choas dwarves and dogs of war) I had a friend that owned BOTH of these armies and he sold his models and curses Games Workshop to this day.

I think it should be mentioned that expansions with collectibles do have a nasty tendancy to revised rules from the previous editions.

[maelic001]

Of course the game has to live long enough to get revised/2nd edition rules. Many collectible games don't find a market and end up in the bargain bins within a year of their release...

There's no guarantee Heroscape won't fall to this same invalidate-the-old-with-the-new cycle, but the designers did think far enough ahead to add plenty of extra details in the base game's stats so that they could seamlessly update the game with expansions without underpowering the initial figures.

[Da Black Gobo]

No gobo I agree with you in the case of expansions. Warhammer doesn't suffer from expansions but they do suffer from revised rules and army books every decade. Also they eliminate armies sometimes (like choas dwarves and dogs of war) I had a friend that owned BOTH of these armies and he sold his models and curses Games Workshop to this day.

I think it should be mentioned that expansions with collectibles do have a nasty tendancy to revised rules from the previous editions.

They have made some hurtful choices for the old guard, but really I don't see why he sold his armies!! GW made a conversion book for the older models (raving hordes), and while they are not tournament legal, they are still used in local games. (Another reason I hate the tournaments)

I have a empire army that has models from 3 generations of models, and looks damn good and plays just fine. I for one will not be selling my minis just because GW says they will not be used in their tournaments.

Sean

[OctavianNT]

The only reason I dislike collectible games is the rich littlle kids always win.

[admiral_yamoto]

i hate collectable, you never know what youre going to get, so thats the problem. you haev to base your sqaud on what you got, not what you want

[Warmonger05]

I dont care if its collectible, as long as I could play the game, paint the figures and/or make decals. {Not paint the whole thing, though.}

[Moderator Sinister]

I think they come prepainted

[TomJag3]

I don't like collectible games. For a historical game, I like to construct historically based units. That means that if I'm putting together a PzIII tank platoon in the desert, I want to get 4 or 5 PzIII models. If I'm doing Kursk and want the Tigers in place, I want to throw out a couple of Tigers. If it's a German infantry unit, I want the horses and wagons for hauling the artillery.

I want to control what I purchase and not rely on dumb luck.

[Carlo]

The only reason I dislike collectible games is the rich littlle kids always win.
I remember with anger my Magic:thegathering phase. I never won, because I bought only 2 boosters per month, while the other spent loads of money to buy rare cards, and they bought even entire boxes.

[admiral_yamoto]

yeah, thats the same reason why i always lost pokemon....

also, the only reason why i bought SWM was for my RPG. and i still dont have the mon calamari :mad:

[skeevo666]

The only reason I dislike collectible games is the rich littlle kids always win.

Not if they're crappy players :cool:

[Smith568]

One cool thing about the random packaging: The thrill of an amazing pull. It's going to be a real kick in the keester to grab that "one last box" at the bookstore or whereever on an impluse and get an extra (*your personal favorite tank here*) for the trouble. You can't get that rush from translucent blisterpacks.

Another thing that's kind of neat is being forced to get to know (& possibly use) minis that you wouldn't have previously had any intention of buying on their own. How many times do you just want to refight the same five star match ups over and over again, anyway?

Ultimately, you can trade or purchase individual minis on the secondary market pretty easily - and that can be fun in it's own right. In the end - we can't ALL get stuck with 12 copies of "Belgian Aircraft Mechanic, 2nd Class"

I'm digging this!

[Shrapnelsmile]

Very true Mr. Smith. I'm an avid Mechwarrior player, and for those of you that know Wizkids games, you know they make some seriously lackluster units. Recently we played a cannonfodder game where I picked my friend's army from his absolute worst pieces, and he in turn constructed a force from my least fav's. End result: a hell of a lot of fun, and still a vicious battle.

And keep in mind that from what little I know of D&D mini's players claim that over 80% of units you pull are usable in serious games. I would venture to guess that AH will go for that same level of playtested quality, where even those units that go for a .40 cents each on ebay can be utilized effectively with the right tactics.

[Arnminster]

Actually the useful figures in D&D Minis for the Tourny skirmish game is about 15% to 20% but I still collect them because they are also useful for RPG.

[fenyan]

Will the non-rare figures in the Starters be available in the boosters or will they only be available in the Starters?

[skeevo666]

Will the non-rare figures in the Starters be available in the boosters or will they only be available in the Starters?


They should be in the boosters as well. Otherwise, they'd be touted as "exclusive to the Starter" (like in Star Wars Miniatures)

[vogless]

Weren't the rares in the starter set "fixed" like SW?

[XAos]

Will the non-rare figures in the Starters be available in the boosters or will they only be available in the Starters?
I doubt they will be restricted to the starters. With only 48 figures in the set, having 11 of them "starter only" would seriously reduce whats available in the boosters. I recall seeing somewhere a note they are "common units for the USA+UK V's German. So that a new player can play a "historical" skirmish with only 1 starter. (instead of having a random mix of 6 different nationalities)