Are these gonna be scaled? (read for explanation)

[series]

Will it look like a single infantry man would realistically fit inside a tank, or would it be more like Axis and Allies, where an infantry is taller than a tank?

[skeevo666]

Since they didn't say there would be more than one scale, the soldiers should fit inside the tanks (if you want to hollow them out , that is :p )

[fenyan]

Richard Baker posted on June 7 in another thread: "The infantry figures are 15mm, same as the tanks. Our little guys are about 60% as tall as a tank that would be 10 feet tall in real life. We considered the idea of going with "oversized" infantry but discarded it pretty early on. I sort of favored an 18mm scale for the infantry to go with a 15mm scale for the tanks, but we decided that you guys would pillory us for it."

[skeevo666]

. . . "I sort of favored an 18mm scale for the infantry to go with a 15mm scale for the tanks, but we decided that you guys would pillory us for it."


Hmmm, it does sound like he has his finger on the pulse of gamer reaction ;)

[Major Adler]

if the tanks are 15mm scale...and the infantry figures represent a man 10 feet tall...then the infantry are not 15mm scale...and that is proven out by thr pic of a M18 and a U.S. infantryman...in Scrye magazine...the infantry figure looks TOO BIG...

Adler...out..................

[elindo]

Adler...out..................
I thought you were "Adler...out" for good? Just go away if you are really this unsatisfied with a product that hasn't even been launched yet!
E

[Kaufschtick]

I gotta agree with Herr Adler, on this one. I would think a company that wanted to turn a profit ($$$ :)) would be interested in what people are willing to; and are not willing to spend their money on. I think Herr Adler is dead on in his evaluation; and if he is, then by all means, speak up!

Who's to say that there isn't a huge market out there just waiting to spend lots of money on just the type of miniatures Herr Adler is advocating? I'll say this, I'm one of those exact types of people! I, for one, think it's absolutely crazy not to listen to Herr Adler. Especially from a business point of view!

I sure haven't heard anyone say; "Gee, I sure hope they don't put more than one infantry figure on a base!" :eek:

Or; "I hope everything is in a different scale! :eek:

In this case, more is definitely better!

[Shrapnelsmile]

The pic in scrye is pretty much a "we don't have a magic card to go here" snippet. Most likely, it appears off-scale because they wanted to make the grunt a bit easier to check out.

Shrapnelsmile "IN" ha ha

[bsantucci]

Why is it those with German logos are the ones with negative things to say. Still mad cause they lost the war. The game is not even out yet. Give it a chance.

[series]

I thought 15 mm infantry meant that the infantry were each 15 mm tall, and that each tank was 15 mm tall, etc., i didn't realize that 15 mm was the scale.

Boy, that really clears things up. I was gonna say, if a tank was little over a centimeter tall...

[admiral_yamoto]

what does it mean its the scale? :confused: i was also confused about that. warhammer is also "15mm" but when i measured the guys, they werent 15 mm.....

[elindo]

I gotta agree with Herr Adler, on this one. I would think a company that wanted to turn a profit ($$$ :)) would be interested in what people are willing to; and are not willing to spend their money on. I think Herr Adler is dead on in his evaluation; and if he is, then by all means, speak up!

Who's to say that there isn't a huge market out there just waiting to spend lots of money on just the type of miniatures Herr Adler is advocating? I'll say this, I'm one of those exact types of people! I, for one, think it's absolutely crazy not to listen to Herr Adler. Especially from a business point of view!

I sure haven't heard anyone say; "Gee, I sure hope they don't put more than one infantry figure on a base!" :eek:

Or; "I hope everything is in a different scale! :eek:

In this case, more is definitely better!

If anyone here thinks they are going to be able to make some grass roots changes to this game, I think they are mistaken. It's already JUNE, I'm sure the molds take 8-12 weeks to build, 2-3 weeks to run product & paint, package then it will still take another 4 weeks to ship product from China, you do the math! All the *****ing and moaning about this isn't going to change the fact that a squad of infantry is going to be represented with a single figure come this September! So just get over it already, if you're not interested in the game because of the way it's produced, then just don't buy it. It's plain and simple. If you want 4-5 figs on a base, then buy the other mini systems that are out there.

[fenyan]

what does it mean its the scale? :confused: i was also confused about that. warhammer is also "15mm" but when i measured the guys, they werent 15 mm.....

Don't know about Warhammer...When miniatures people talk about 15mm scale, this generally means a soldier figure will measure 15mm high. Vehicles are scaled accordingly (as Rich said, figures in A&A minis are approximately 60% the height of a 10-foot high tank). However, not all manufacturers size their "15mm" figures the same, some figures are a bit taller (18mm) or wider compared to other manufacturers.

Here's a good article about scale by one manufacturer: http://www.quickreactionforce.co.uk/html/a_note_about_scale.html

[Der Panzinator]

As a familiar comparison for any Axis & Allies players. An A&A infantry figure is 20mm or 1/76 scale. And an A&A tank is 6mm or 1/285 scale.
So the 15mm figures for A&A minis have smaller infantry by about a third, and tanks about 4 times larger.

[JasonR1]

If anyone here thinks they are going to be able to make some grass roots changes to this game, I think they are mistaken. It's already JUNE, I'm sure the molds take 8-12 weeks to build, 2-3 weeks to run product & paint, package then it will still take another 4 weeks to ship product from China, you do the math! All the *****ing and moaning about this isn't going to change the fact that a squad of infantry is going to be represented with a single figure come this September! So just get over it already, if you're not interested in the game because of the way it's produced, then just don't buy it. It's plain and simple. If you want 4-5 figs on a base, then buy the other mini systems that are out there.


You have a good point, but as I mentioned in another thread, it would be a true sign of customer dedication and marketing strength if Avalon Hill delayed the production in a public effort to meet their consumer’s expectations. I think that in of itself would be a public-relations bonanza; particularly as other game companies have been chided for their lack of concern. Such a move would be well worth the small delay and associated cost, especially if Avalon hill plans a long-term run of this game.


-Jason

[Major Adler]

shrapnelsmile - I guess you sould say that the off scale pic is a result of the photogrophy...

but RB said himselt that the infantry would be 10 ft. tall in 15mmm scale...that makes the mins OUT-OF-SCALE to each other...the game is therefore out of scale...that equals = it is not a minis game...

AH...just admit you screwed up...and assure us that future expansions will have four mini infantry to a abase...and will be to scale...

Adler...out.................

[fenyan]

Major Adler, I believe you misread RB--he wrote the infantry would be 60% of a 10 ft. tall tank, which makes them 6 ft. tall. A bit taller than average but not too out of whack.

[Major Adler]

yikes...you are correct with regards to the statement from RB...I stand corrected...I did missread it...

I guess it must be the way the infantry figure and M18 are photographed in Scrye that makes the infantry figure look larger than it should be...

Adler...out...................

[RichardBaker]

I thought 15 mm infantry meant that the infantry were each 15 mm tall, and that each tank was 15 mm tall, etc., i didn't realize that 15 mm was the scale.

Boy, that really clears things up. I was gonna say, if a tank was little over a centimeter tall...


Just to be absolutely clear: Say the Sherman tank is 11 feet tall in real life (I don't know exactly how tall it is off the top of my head, let's just say 11 feet for the purpose of this exercise). A soldier is 6 feet tall (include the helmet if it bugs you). Our minis use a 15mm scale, so the mini of the soldier will be 15mm high, and the mini of the Sherman tank will remain in exact proportion to the soldier, which means it would be 27.5mm high.

That doesn't mean the tank is on the 25mm or 28mm scale; the tank is still on the 15mm scale, but the 15mm scale means that 15mm = 6 feet, so the tank is proportionally larger than a person. When you see "15mm scale" think 120-1, and you'll be right on.

[skeevo666]

. . . it would be a true sign of customer dedication and marketing strength if Avalon Hill delayed the production in a public effort to meet their consumer’s expectations. I think that in of itself would be a public-relations bonanza; particularly as other game companies have been chided for their lack of concern. Such a move would be well worth the small delay and associated cost, especially if Avalon hill plans a long-term run of this game.


That would be great if they did, but I highly doubt they will. The "PR benefit" of the response would be cancelled out by the stigma of a missed release date. :o

Something similiar is occuring in the Star Wars Miniatures game. They've been producing a supplement book for each expansion called "Ultimate Missions". They're about 75% scenarios/campaigns and 25% new rules/terrain pieces. The consumer feedback has been that those percentages should be reversed :cool:

And WotC has said they will do that, but the lead time of development means it won't occur 'til later this year.

So just like the "wheels of justice", the wheels of game design turn slowly :mad:

[SeattleGamer]

Regarding "scale" there are two (naturally) ways of figuring it. The two standards are "bottom of feet to top of head" and "bottom of feet to eye level"". The later because on many, many minis, the helmet may be a big fancy rig (think napoleonics here) and it's impossible to see the head. This is one of the reasons for "scale creep" in that one firm uses top of head and the other to the eyes. So two firms say they make 15mm figures, and you buy one of each, and one figure is a tad taller.

Also, for purposes of scale discussions, soldiers are all considered to be 6' tall. Even though that is on the taller side of norm, it's the rule of thumb used.

So a 15mm figure of any sort means that every 15mm = 6', or 2.5mm to a foot.

A Sherman was 24.4' long, 8.7' wide and 10.5' tall.
In 15mm scale, it should be 61mm long x 22mm wide x 26mm tall (rounded off a bit)
In "inches" this means the tank should be 2.4" long, .9" wide, 1" tall (rounded a bit)

Richard . . . great guess as to the SHerman height!

[Kaufschtick]

If anyone here thinks they are going to be able to make some grass roots changes to this game, I think they are mistaken. It's already JUNE, I'm sure the molds take 8-12 weeks to build, 2-3 weeks to run product & paint, package then it will still take another 4 weeks to ship product from China, you do the math! All the *****ing and moaning about this isn't going to change the fact that a squad of infantry is going to be represented with a single figure come this September! So just get over it already, if you're not interested in the game because of the way it's produced, then just don't buy it. It's plain and simple. If you want 4-5 figs on a base, then buy the other mini systems that are out there.

The "expert" ( :rolleyes: ) has spoken...

Although it does sound as if you're the one doing the whining here... :eek:

All that is being expressed is the opinion that a squad of infantry, in 15mm scale, would be better represented by more than one figure.

Apparently you must be in charge of the shipping and production of this product, judging from the overly uptight response. Try switching to decaf.

[sherminator1]

I gotta agree with Herr Adler, on this one. I would think a company that wanted to turn a profit ($$$ :)) would be interested in what people are willing to; and are not willing to spend their money on. I think Herr Adler is dead on in his evaluation; and if he is, then by all means, speak up!

Who's to say that there isn't a huge market out there just waiting to spend lots of money on just the type of miniatures Herr Adler is advocating? I'll say this, I'm one of those exact types of people! I, for one, think it's absolutely crazy not to listen to Herr Adler. Especially from a business point of view!

I sure haven't heard anyone say; "Gee, I sure hope they don't put more than one infantry figure on a base!" :eek:

Or; "I hope everything is in a different scale! :eek:

In this case, more is definitely better!

Sweet motherly boldness!

[XAos]

The "expert" ( :rolleyes: ) has spoken...

Although it does sound as if you're the one doing the whining here... :eek:

All that is being expressed is the opinion that a squad of infantry, in 15mm scale, would be better represented by more than one figure.

Apparently you must be in charge of the shipping and production of this product, judging from the overly uptight response. Try switching to decaf.
Have you considered the possability that elindo actually is in charge of one of the competators that he so strongly suggests A/H's customers buy from. ;)

[Kaufschtick]

Have you considered the possability that elindo actually is in charge of one of the competators that he so strongly suggests A/H's customers buy from. ;)

Doubtful; you've got to be able to listen to people in order to have customers. Customers tend to not like having people they may purchase products or services from tell them to take it or leave it.

[Moderator Keldar]

Reminder: The topic is, "Are these gonna be scaled?" :)

[squirecam]

Doubtful; you've got to be able to listen to people in order to have customers. Customers tend to not like having people they may purchase products or services from tell them to take it or leave it.

I've made this point before to AH designers.

They dont always listen.

Squirecam

[ArtBraune]

As I do not have access to an image hosting source...

Email me at artbraune @ aol.com if you would like the scan of the A&A Minis soldier standing next to a US M18 Hellcat that was found in latest Scrye magazine.

The final scan size is aroung half a MB - so no whining about file size. :D

If somebody can host the scan - that would be better - again email at the addy above.

Ciao!
Art

[TrimChris]

Doubtful; you've got to be able to listen to people in order to have customers. Customers tend to not like having people they may purchase products or services from tell them to take it or leave it.

Ever heard of supply side economics?

[JasonR1]

Ever heard of supply side economics?

You are saying that if we cut corporate taxes and the taxes on top 20% of incomes in the consumer base, we will in effect free up enough private capital to build in a trickle down demand for A&A minis?

Interesting...... :D

[Moderator Keldar]

One more subtle reminder, please get back on topic. :(