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lieserj
06-17-2005, 04:42 PM
I have a question about a sea combat that occured in a recent game of Axis & Allies Europe that I was playing:

The situation began as follows:

Germany had control of a british convoy zone and was currently occupying it with an Aircraft Carrier which had 2 fighter units on board. The USA Player attacked this zone using 1 destroyer and 2 submarines.

Since there were no German destroyers present, the USA subs got their special "first strike" attack and got 2 hits. Since submarines can never hit air units, the carrier was destroyed and the second submarine hit was "wasted". Afterwards, the attacking destroyer as well as the two defending fighters failed to get any hits. Therefore at the end of combat round 1 there remained two USA submarines, 1 USA destroyer and 2 German fighters, now with no place to land since the carrier had been destroyed and there were no places for them to land within 1 movement.

My question is this: is it necessary for the USA player to continue combat in order to liberate the convoy zone in question? at this point, since the USA Submarines and the German Fighters cannot hit each other the only USA unit that can attack is the Destroyer. However, the rules state that in order to retreat from a Naval Combat, ALL attacking units must retreat together to the same sea zone. If the USA player retreats the destroyer he must also retreat the 2 attacking submarines and this would leave the convoy zone in German control, even though the fighters would be eliminated at the end of the turn because they no longer have anywhere to land. On the other hand, if the USA player continues the combat for 1 or more rounds, it is likely that the USA destroyer would be destroyed leaving the 2 USA subs attacking a convoy zone containing nothing but enemy air units. Combat would be over at that point.

When exactly are the "cargo" fighters aboard the German Carrier required to fly 1 space to land or face destruction? Does this occur immediately upon the destruction of the carrier or does it happen after the entire combat has been resolved? This raises more complicated questions in a situation where the zone in question was a USA convoy zone or if there are other defending naval units in the same zone that could certainly use the support of these fighters when continuing the defense. If there does happen to be an available landing within 1 space are the fighters required to fly there immediately upon the destruction of the carrier, thus eliminating them from the rest of combat in that territory or are they only required to do so after that combat is finished, perhaps during non-combat movement? Does the USA player need to continue the combat until his destroyer is gone before liberating the convoy zone? If nothing but USA submarines and German Fighters are left then who has control of the zone at the end of the combat or more importantly at the time when Collection of Income takes place? Please be as thorough as possible in your explanation.

Krieghund
06-18-2005, 07:19 AM
Welcome, lieserj!

Fighters whose supporting carrier is destroyed do not have to land until the end of the battle, so they may continue to fight until the battle is over even if they have no place to land. In your example, the US player may do 1 of 3 things:


Retreat the destroyer and subs.
Retreat the destroyer and retreat or submerge the subs.
Continue the battle until the fighters or the destroyer are destroyed.


The first 2 options would result in Germany retaining control of the Convoy Zone. Since all naval units must retreat together, the only way to leave the subs in the Zone while retreating the destroyer is to submerge them, and submerged subs cannot take control of Convoy Zones. In either case, the US would have to wait until its next turn to take control.

The third option will result in the US taking control of the Zone. Since the subs and fighters cannot hit each other the unsubmerged subs will survive, and since the fighters cannot occupy the Zone without a carrier they will not. So the US will win the battle (having the only remaining units), but the battle between the fighters and the destroyer must continue until one or both are eliminated in order for the subs to remain in the Zone unsubmerged.

The fighters will die at the end of the battle in any of these cases.

Hope this helps.

Cowboy
07-10-2005, 08:14 PM
to lieserj:

If you continue the battle you could use the subs as fodder because you could only retake the zone with the total destruction of german forces during combat and a surviving naval unit to control the zone.
my advice tho would be not to risk units since you only gain 5ipc and germans lose 24ipc for planes anyway. hope this helps,

Krieghund
07-11-2005, 06:28 AM
If you continue the battle you could use the subs as fodder because you could only retake the zone with the total destruction of german forces during combat and a surviving naval unit to control the zone.
my advice tho would be not to risk units since you only gain 5ipc and germans lose 24ipc for planes anyway. hope this helps,

Cowboy, you cannot "use the subs as fodder", since the fighters cannot hit them without a friendly destroyer present. Since the subs and fighters cannot hit each other, the battle would be over when they are the only units remaining. Control of the Convoy Zone would then go to Britain, since only Allied ships remain in the Zone. Only ships can control a Convoy Zone - planes cannot. The only risk to the US player is the almost certain loss of his destroyer.

Cowboy
07-11-2005, 03:18 PM
my mistake. thanks for getting me straightened out on that.so the best thing to do obviously is to cut your losses and withdraw.