SS units.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Have they said anything about this?
Just curious.

It will be interesting to see if they decide to tow the line and neglect certain features of WW2 in hopes not to upset anyone OR if they will have some b@77$ and go right ahead with it.

[vogless]

There will be SS units. The Panther pic show the card which reads "SS Panther" and one of the abilities seems to be "SS Determination". I'm glad to see them included, just as I'm glad the Red Devils are also included. As far as how much better they were than any other units, that's up to the historians. Bring on the SAS and the Rangers!!

[fenyan]

From the designer: "You will definitely get multiple varieties of infantry for each country. For example, you'll see the Wehrmacht rifleman and SS rifleman in the base set. In later sets we'll show you a SS stormtrooper, armed with a submachinegun instead of a rifle. And I expect we'll do Volksturm and Luftwaffe infantry too. I'd say Hitler Youth also, but that's kind of troubling, isn't it?"

[vogless]

I think the Volksturm would be close enough...

[Major Adler]

I would love too see an SAS jeep...all tricked out the way they were...

Adler...out.................

[vogless]

Oh, yeah! Bring on the SAS and the LRDG!

[rebel_yancy]

oh, man. If the SAS makes it into the game... I'm gonna turn all British. Although, with the Churchill Crocodile out there in the first set, I may play as the Brits rather a lot anyway. (of course, choosing one country is rather Star Wars Minis-oriented of me. Hopefully you can just choose Axis or Allies)

[DocD]

Wafen SS!!! YES!!!

[GoblinSlayer]

oh, man. If the SAS makes it into the game... I'm gonna turn all British. Although, with the Churchill Crocodile out there in the first set, I may play as the Brits rather a lot anyway. (of course, choosing one country is rather Star Wars Minis-oriented of me. Hopefully you can just choose Axis or Allies)
I'm guessing and hoping it will be just axis versus allies.

[SeattleGamer]

"I'm guessing and hoping it will be just axis versus allies."

The designer has already pointed out in another thread that the rules support two methods for gaming. One is a simple axis versus allies, so you can have Japanese infantry and Italian artillery and German tanks all on the same side, fighting American infantry and British tanks and Soviet artillery on the other.

The other is more historically based, and there are restrictions.

I think it's rather cool that they officially have both methods covered.

[skeevo666]

I think it's rather cool that they officially have both methods covered.


Ain't nothin' wrong with variety! (also kool for all the "What If"ers out there :cool: )

[SeattleGamer]

To clarify, I think it's cool they took the time to specify that you could do it one of two ways. They could certainly have taken the easy way out and detailed just one way, and then put in some vague wording that would really apply to any game ever made. Something like "Of course, if you and your opponent agree, feel free to...".

That sort of thing is a given! Of course my friend and I can break any "rule" if we both say it's fine. But it's nice that AH has officially provided a loose and a more strict force building approach. Might make tournaments easier to do, and now when you play against a stranger you probably only need to cite one of those two and you can both agree and get playing.

I for one am wondering if their force building rules even include the year of release. Since the cards have their year of availability, then perhaps to make things even more interesting, you may have to pick a year (say, 1943) and no you can only field units on your force up to but not beyond that year. I hope so, because it's going to get boring really fast always fighting with/against the top tanks of the war.

[Chairman7w]

> Doc D wrote: "Wafen SS!!! YES!!!"

Why does this excite you? Why the great love for the Waffen SS ?
They weren't exactly nice guys. I've never understood the adulation and admiration of these organizations and units (i.e., the Nazi's). Please explain.

[slickdog]

Regarding the excitement for "Wafen SS" units; though they were truly heinous, historical accuracy adds greatly to the allure of this and any other wargame. I'm excited that there aren't just generic units from each country. I will be equally excited to see a japanese squad with the "Banzai" ability.

On the other hand, I think the inclusion of the "Nazi Death Camp Guard" would be unnecessary and inappropriate.

[pellulo]

If games were made for the figures on a historical year, e.g. 1945, you could have a set (whether one or two on the same base), of irregulars (a la Gotterdamm). As the Third Reich was being overrun (up to two thirds, before the Nazis called it quites), many units became mixed, or, overlapped, as the Armed Forces were losing cohesion. Here it did occur, where a unit was made up of regular infantry, office/support personal, people's guard, naval/air personal, SS units, Police & Special Police, and, yes Camp Guards all mixed togethere.

A more feared unit figure was the avenging Soviet Soldier, who was doing payback for what happen to their homeland, (asked any civilians of Prussia to the Berlin Area). It is addmitted that camp guards were a creature of a evil system, who were taught no better, but, the avenging Soviet Soldier (not all participated in acts of revenge), could have been controlled, but, was allowed to equal the worst of the Nazis. When it comes to Axis & Allies, the Soviets were both. Thanks, Pellulo

[DocD]

> Doc D wrote: "Wafen SS!!! YES!!!"

Why does this excite you? Why the great love for the Waffen SS ?
They weren't exactly nice guys. I've never understood the adulation and admiration of these organizations and units (i.e., the Nazi's). Please explain.
Hey Chairman, DocD here.

This thread strictly speaks only of the miniature soldiers that will be stuck to plastic. And in no way offers an opinion on the deeds or undeeds of the soldiers they represent. Getting into the politics or policies of any of these soldiers will get this entire thread nuked faster than Washington DC during WWIII.

If you must know my excitement on the matter, I want to see how nice they would make a Wafen SS miniature.
I personally want to see their uniforms. The Wafen SS had the coolest uniforms in the entire war, IMO.
And also, their abilities. They surely should outperform any regular German line infantry.

[vogless]

Well said DocD. Politics and deeds aside, all the Greman units did LOOK sharp. Plus, they are "elite" units. I want to see them just as I would like to see the British Commandos,SAS,SBS,US Rangers, Marines, Marine Raiders, Airborne, UDT, Soviet Guards, etc.

[pellulo]

Aside from the uniforms, even I admit, that Bad Guys always seem to be the best dressed, e.g. who can forget The Imperial StormTroopers, in the orginal Star Wars Picture.

As for wargamming with or without the miantures, I think allot of gaming groups/collectionist, know the History of what they are using (have you ever heard a wargaming Fanatic of Dungions & Dragons, Lord of the Rings, ect., go into explict history, battle stats of a particular figure/units (considering it a fantasy/makebelive subject!). Much less a Revolutionary Wargamer, say a game based on 1776, talk about British Dragoons, stats or movement, or, describe the History of the figure's uniform weapons, or, combat record.

To say or hint, that the History of units is some sort of, should be kept in the closet, is really a show of ignorance. Let's face it, they were good & bad guys, in WWII, unfortunitly, it is not all black & white, and, the line does sometimes get blurry, in the case of the '45 Soviet troopers (I'm sure their uniforms were as not as piffy as the S.S., when some of them did wrong actions).

So I'm willing to let it rest, some units are "cooler" looking than others, but, the fear of the thread being closed, cause, of a particular units "Bad" history is mention, really is something that probably would have happen more, in a more Nazi/Soviet type system. I know the collectable must sell enough to make a profit, but, political correctness, of not mentioning, thier Historical past, is really silly.

Neverfear all that Hot Air over D.C. I'm sure protects it from any harm. Final note, have you notice that German armour, especially their Tank Destroyers, look cooler than the Allies (cannot wait for the minatures) , basically they were built (opps sorry no offending poltically incorrect History is to be told about them), take care, Pellulo

[DocD]

To say or hint, that the History of units is some sort of, should be kept in the closet, is really a show of ignorance. Let's face it, they were good & bad guys, in WWII, unfortunitly, it is not all black & white, and, the line does sometimes get blurry, in the case of the '45 Soviet troopers (I'm sure their uniforms were as not as piffy as the S.S., when some of them did wrong actions).


That's a nice spin on things pellulo. I for one wouldn't mind seeing alittle more leeway in the Code rules. Of course, I've been around long enough to know what can and cannot be said on the board.

Things too easily can be taken out of context and the Mods take their jobs very serious. :)

[vogless]

You ain't kiddin! I walked away from the D&D Mini boards WAAAAY back due to inflexible Mods. The Mods on this forum however, have been nothing but helpful thus far.

[Weapon]

Hey Chairman, DocD here.

This thread strictly speaks only of the miniature soldiers that will be stuck to plastic. And in no way offers an opinion on the deeds or undeeds of the soldiers they represent. Getting into the politics or policies of any of these soldiers will get this entire thread nuked faster than Washington DC during WWIII.

If you must know my excitement on the matter, I want to see how nice they would make a Wafen SS miniature.
I personally want to see their uniforms. The Wafen SS had the coolest uniforms in the entire war, IMO.
And also, their abilities. They surely should outperform any regular German line infantry.

Its not as if Doc had some personal admiration of the SS divisions. That is why its a game. We aren't sitting around planning the next invasion of Normandy. We are surrounding a gaming table playing with wargaming miniatures, and some are powerful. Its ok to be excited about a historically powerful unit or machine.