rarity on tanks etc

[PANZERBUNNY]

Valid question here.

Just how rare will rare be?

And why would I keep buying packs trying to get said rare that is SUPER COOL when I could just buy it right up front from another manufacturers line of minis?(having to paint the minis issue aside)

[XAos]

Lead minis are both heavy & fragile (a bad combination) most lead minis will break from their own inertia if you drop then from table height.:eek: Do the same with an A&A minis tank, my bet is it will bounce. :cool: Most of them will survive being stepped on. Want to try that with your favourite lead mini.?

[Marat]

Just how rare will rare be?

And why would I keep buying packs trying to get said rare that is SUPER COOL when I could just buy it right up front from another manufacturers line of minis?(having to paint the minis issue aside)

By my count, the set has 16 rares; 7 axis, 9 allied.

Axis:
Panzer II Ausf. C
SS-Panther. Ausf. G
Jagdpanther
Tiger I
sIG 33
Carro Armato M13/40
Type 95 Ha-Go


Allied:
KV-1
T-34/76
Churchill Crocodile
Crusader
M18 Hellcat
M3 Lee
M4A3E8 Sherman "Easy Eight"
M5 Stuart
and one unidentified French or English tank in the upper right of this photo: http://www.gamefest.com/_files/gamewire/specialfeatures/origins2005/day3/large/IMG_1802.jpg


There are also 2 uncommon tanks that come in the non-random starter:
Panzer IV Ausf. G and M4A1 Sherman.



Marat

[Plagued]

By my count, the set has 16 rares; 7 axis, 9 allied.
and one unidentified French or English tank in the upper right of this photo: http://www.gamefest.com/_files/gamewire/specialfeatures/origins2005/day3/large/IMG_1802.jpg



Looks like an Italian tank to me...Maybe an L6/40?

[fenyan]

Marat,

The designer indicated 15 rares so I would guess that the Stuart or Pz II will drop down to uncommon.

I think the Allied tank in the upper right is French and might be a Somua (or Renault or Hotchkiss).

[Marat]

The designer indicated 15 rares so I would guess that the Stuart or Pz II will drop down to uncommon.

I think the Allied tank in the upper right is French and might be a Somua (or Renault or Hotchkiss).

Good catch Fenyan, I forgot they gave us the rare count.

The Pz II photo at Wargamer shows its card with the rare symbol, so it probably is the Stuart, or maybe the French tank that's uncommon.

7 Axis and 8 Allied is a little more balanced too.


Marat

[Plagued]

I think the Allied tank in the upper right is French and might be a Somua (or Renault or Hotchkiss).

Actually, your right. It's definately a Renault R35.

Looking at the image closer and a R35 model I had handy pretty much confirms it.

(Also supporting this is the French infantryman underneath it.)

[fenyan]

Ah, thanks. A bit too "boxy" to be a Somua anyways.

[XAos]

17 tanks in the set & 15 rares. So 2 of the tanks are uncommon.
From what we have seen of the cards the 2 uncommons must be the Stuart & French (R35?) Most players would have prefered the {Sherman, T-34 or Panzer IV} to be uncommon...

[Sean-Khan]

17 tanks in the set & 15 rares. So 2 of the tanks are uncommon.
From what we have seen of the cards the 2 uncommons must be the Stuart & French (R35?) Most players would have prefered the {Sherman, T-34 or Panzer IV} to be uncommon...
They say that there's tanks in the starter, so I guess those two are fixed.

[vogless]

I hope that if the 2 tanks in the starters are fixed, that's not the only way to get them.

[Anarch]

Lead minis are both heavy & fragile (a bad combination) most lead minis will break from their own inertia if you drop then from table height.:eek: Do the same with an A&A minis tank, my bet is it will bounce. :cool: Most of them will survive being stepped on. Want to try that with your favourite lead mini.?

OMG... is that your arguement for why one should buy the A&AM's? That is one of the most short sighted reasons that I could possibly think of. How often do you drop miniatures? Do you have a bad back from transporting these extremely heavy LEAD miniatures? Do you often do the Mexican hat dance around your miniatures? Sheesh... at least come up with valid reason other than the competition is heavy, fragile, or might break if you stepped on it.

Even the stat card is more collectable.

[SeattleGamer]

They have already stated that the guaranteed rare in the starter set is a random rare, so it's not a fixed thing. I know people are doing the math and are figuring out that there are more tanks than "rares" so some of the tanks must be uncommon, etc. I can only hope that IF the initial news was true, and IF some of the tanks will be uncommons, that they pick some tanks that would make sense to BE uncommon.

Shermans, T34s, PzIVs were all core vehicles for their respective nations, and gee, wouldn't that be nice if those were the tanks AH chose to be uncommons?

As for buying these minis because the metal ones are so fragile, I'm with Anarch. I wonder what happens to the plastic tanks if you leave them sitting in your front seat all day. In the sun. In Alabama. In the summer. I'll tell you what, you have a puddle of plastic. Everything has a weakness. Even Superman (tm) had his cryptonite!

[Anarch]

I wonder what happens to the plastic tanks if you leave them sitting in your front seat all day. In the sun. In Alabama. In the summer. I'll tell you what, you have a puddle of plastic.
Hummmm that sounds like a guy that has had it happen?

[Sean-Khan]

[QUOTE=SeattleGamer]They have already stated that the guaranteed rare in the starter set is a random rare, so it's not a fixed thing. I know people are doing the math and are figuring out that there are more tanks than "rares" so some of the tanks must be uncommon, etc. I can only hope that IF the initial news was true, and IF some of the tanks will be uncommons, that they pick some tanks that would make sense to BE uncommon.

Shermans, T34s, PzIVs were all core vehicles for their respective nations, and gee, wouldn't that be nice if those were the tanks AH chose to be uncommons?
QUOTE]
In gamefest preview ( http://www.gamefest.com/news/feature_detail/2798_0_3_0_C/ ), there's 11 minis lined in the bottom row, and it's said that they are starter minis. Since there are 12 minis in the starter, one can only assume that these are the fixed ones. And there's two tanks in this row. So, I guess every starter has 3 tanks or equivalent vehicles, which is great!

It's much possible that you can get those two tanks only from the starter. That's how Star Wars minis did it, except those units were uniques. Well, it's guaranteed 3 tanks so it might not be a bad idea to buy one or two extras if you want at leat one of those tanks, especially as you can get more maps (although the terrain may get somewhat repetitive :P ). There's always someone who wants the other tank, and trading is always a possibility.

[XAos]

OMG... is that your arguement for why one should buy the A&AM's? That is one of the most short sighted reasons that I could possibly think of. How often do you drop miniatures? Do you have a bad back from transporting these extremely heavy LEAD miniatures? Do you often do the Mexican hat dance around your miniatures? Sheesh... at least come up with valid reason other than the competition is heavy, fragile, or might break if you stepped on it.


dropping them is the worse case (the clearest way to demonstrate an argument is by considering the extreams)
In pactice lead minis suffer constant "attrition" to paint work unless you take deliberate & extream care in their packing. Plastic d&d minis require "no such" time wasting care. A player using lead minis will waste more time packing a battlegroup for transportation than I will spend painting a battlegroup of A&A minis. By all means, if you enjoy painting. Spend your time that way. But I can't imagine anyone who "enjoys" the time spent packing lead minis away in a padded carying case at the end of a game.

Back to the actual topic of this thread;
Uncommon vehicles;
Jeep, Sherman M4, Panzer IVg, Humber SC, sdkfz-222 AC

Rare Vehicles;
M3 Lee, Tiger, SIG-33, Panzer II, M13/40, Crocodile, T-34, KV-1, Panther, M4A3 Sherman, M-18

Others;
Type-95, R-35, Stuart, Crusader, Jagd Panther, 251/1 halftrack
I'd guess the halftrack, & one extra tank (Crusader ?) will be uncommon...

[Hedgehobbit]

Shermans, T34s, PzIVs were all core vehicles for their respective nations, and gee, wouldn't that be nice if those were the tanks AH chose to be uncommons?
I would suspect that a vehicles rarity has more to do with its size than how many were used IRL. I'll be suprised if any large vehicle ends up as uncommon.


Aaron

[SeattleGamer]

Yes . . . I HAVE had a bag o' goblins become a pubble of goblins in the southern sunlight. I used to head off to a park on my lunch hour and work on minis. One time I put them away but left them on my front seat when returning to work. By the time I got off (105 degrees outside, probably 140 degrees in my car), they looked like someone took a flamethrower to them!

As for this talk of what may or may not be in the starter box, there is no telling. Seeing the pre-release photos is terrific, but you can't take any of what you saw to the bank. One of the write-ups claimed that was the only copy of the game in existance, and only press people were given a look. Perhaps those are earlier versions of things, and the cards have changed, and their rarity info along with it. You just don't know.

I originally thought that the starter box was 12 random minis, including one guaranteed rare. I placed a pre-order for 6 sets, and a dozen of the expansions. THEN I read that the starters came with a fix 11 figures, with one random rare. Which story is true? We just won't know until they get released or AH makes an official announcement which includes this sort of detail.

So, since AH isn't telling, I cancelled my entire pre-order. I don't want six of whatever the 11 fixed figures are. A random assortment is fine, but if the sets are fixed except for the rare, then I only need 1 starter for the maps and a single hard-copy of the rules.

[Sean-Khan]

I originally thought that the starter box was 12 random minis, including one guaranteed rare. I placed a pre-order for 6 sets, and a dozen of the expansions. THEN I read that the starters came with a fix 11 figures, with one random rare. Which story is true? We just won't know until they get released or AH makes an official announcement which includes this sort of detail.

So, since AH isn't telling, I cancelled my entire pre-order. I don't want six of whatever the 11 fixed figures are. A random assortment is fine, but if the sets are fixed except for the rare, then I only need 1 starter for the maps and a single hard-copy of the rules.

Taken from: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/17970


The starter kit contains pre-painted, 15mm, plastic miniature soldiers and vehicles from WWII that animate the action on the battlefield, along with game stat cards that dictate the firepower, armor, and abilities of each unit. Booster packs bring additional soldiers and vehicles into play.

The Base Set Starter Pack Contains:
•12 collectable miniatures based on battlefield units of World War II
-tanks, antitank guns, commanders, infantry units, and 1 random rare
-miniatures are prepainted, fully assembled, and made of durable plastic
•Full-color game stat cards
•4 double-sided, full-color battle mats
•8 six-sided dice
•Rulebook
•Set checklist

The Base Set Booster Pack Contains:
•9 randomized, prepainted, durable plastic miniatures
•Full-color game stat cards
•Set checklist
(Rules not included in booster.)

[Marat]

As for this talk of what may or may not be in the starter box, there is no telling. Seeing the pre-release photos is terrific, but you can't take any of what you saw to the bank. One of the write-ups claimed that was the only copy of the game in existance, and only press people were given a look. Perhaps those are earlier versions of things, and the cards have changed, and their rarity info along with it. You just don't know.



Although there are no guarantees, I'd have to believe that the starter that was displayed at Origins preview is the final product.

1.) The official unveiling and pre-release tournament at GenCon is 6 weeks away. I would think that at this point, game and set design is complete, and somewhere in China "my" Panzers are currently being poured, assembled, painted, boxed, and put in a cargo container for shipment. The game that was displayed was probably pulled off the assembly line and FedEx'd over for WotC to QC what is coming out of production, and for the demo.

2.) The 11 starter figures in the demo made perfect sense. Tanks are normally rare, but the consumer is going to feel ripped off if they pay $25 for a starter and get one measly tank (and prehaps something relatively obscure like a Renault R-35 at that). Also, this would make the starter totally unbalanced as only one side would get a tank, and tanks are a large part what this game is about. So make 2 tanks uncommon thereby allowing both the Axis and Allied side to have at least one tank in their battle group. If you are going to make two tanks more "common", shouldn't it be 2 tanks that actually had some of the highest production numbers during the war and therefore are a) recognizable to non-history buffs and b) will be most sought after by gamers trying to simulate real battles? Also, note how balanced the forces in the demo starter are. The Axis get a better tank in the 30-pt. Panzer IVg then the 21-pt. Sherman, but the Allied get an extra bazooka infantryman to counter balance this. Everything else is pretty even. The balance of force in demo starter is well thought out, so I'd think that's what they're going with. Also, the Sherman A1 card shows up in the QuickStart pdf with the uncommon marking, further reinforcing that this is cast in stone as one of the uncommon tanks at this point.

After scrutinizing the demo photos some more, here's a refined list of what I think is in the starter:

Axis:
Panzer IV Ausf. g
Pak 38 Antitank Gun
German machinegun
German commander
German soldier

Allied:
M4A1 Sherman
British 6 Pounder Antitank Gun
British Vickers machinegun
"Red Devil" Captain
M1 Garand Rifle
Bazooka

Plus your one random rare tank.

The officers and machine guns are also uncommon, so you get a distribution of
1 Rare, 6 Uncommon, 5 Common in the Starter.


Marat

[TheFoeHammer]

I would suspect that a vehicles rarity has more to do with its size than how many were used IRL. I'll be suprised if any large vehicle ends up as uncommon.


Aaron

Wizards has recently been pretty generous in both the D&D and Star Wars game with Large Uncommons like the Dire Bear and the Yuzzem respectively. I am betting that some cheaper core tanks like the M4A1 or the M3/M5 Light Tanks might make it into this category for the US. Perhaps some Panzer IVs or IIIs for the Germans, etc.

[SeattleGamer]

You may be right Foe, but I'm guessing that won't happen in the starter box or the first expansion. Perhaps later on though, once the first rush to get "your" hard-to-find tanks has run it's course.