pagan vs psychotropic _AARe 3.1

[pagan]

Time to play with some of those little used NAs....

psycho is new to MapView, i don't think he is new to the game.
I never played psychotropic, so for all i know he is better than me

pagan = axis @ +7ipcs (inf+art in Lybia)

psycho = allies


COUSIN JOE --> alter your AARe MapView file __AARe 1.3 __ just make it AARe
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[pagan]

Lend Lease for Russia

Germany gets owned in Ukraine
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[pagan]

I think the strategy is fairly predictable here...(guess what happens to Japan!)
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[pagan]

With Lend Lease selected i think i can predict exactly what is about to happen to Japan and Asia, so to throw a monkey into those plans....


German Navy will be my counter....

I have a 7IPC Initial placement in Lybia (INF+ART)

My choice is going to be either Wolfpacks or Afrika Korps....

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[pagan]

germany 1 final

[pagan]

Gen. Erwin Rommel has been supplied in Afrika..

[axis_roll]

Your navy purchase is surprising.
You bought a second DD and sub, others might have added a transport in that mix to pressure UK with 3 transports worth of units.

Should be interesting battle of the atlantic.

I like this to counter the 3 ftrs in caucasus.

[DocD]

Interesting to say the least. I'm itching to see what NAs the Allies pull to counter your counter.

[pagan]

UK takes Colonial Garrison - South Africa

UK SBR on Berlin = 6 IPCs damage (if it was my bomber it would be dead)

UK kills ***-TN off Kwangtung __then lands on China [2inf+2ftr]

UK moves toward unifying Indian fleet

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[pagan]

Jordan / Persia / India
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[pagan]

Australia
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[pagan]

South Africa
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[pagan]

I did not expect South African IC... I thought India and possibly E.Canada

-owned in Ukraine sucks
-6IPC sbr raid HURTs
-2FTR in china BLOWs

I am still debating on what I am going to do...however I am 90% sure what i will do....and this stems from the need to use those untested NAs, and my intense curiosity to see a specfic strategy in action against my own intuition to do something else
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[pagan]

Rhymes with Titanic....Manic....

Japan selects KAITANS.

Japan builds a whole-lotta Kaitans too !

Australia UK-TN = dead

Hawaii US-navy = dead

China = dead

UK fighter is BACK on Buryatia (decisions...decisions...)
__as a side note here, japanese attack on pearl harbor would have gone horrible if i did not bring bomber. Bomber was set to take on china with 2 FTRs, but with the re-re-shuffle of Uk-ftr back to Buryatia so went the BMR back to pearl to save the day. Japanese FTRs yelled Tora-Tora but never hit a single thing.
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[pagan]

Japanese Asia
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[pagan]

Japanese Pacific
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[psychotropic]

I like the way this is posted. Since I don't know how to do this I will leave it up to you. You're starting to be a real pain in the neck in the pacific. Sorry about the reshuffling of that fighter. I am new to mapview and made a couple of errors. My russian sub should be in with the british fleet and my UK destroyer should be right beside your med fleet but live and learn. I have the board set up now so will track my movements more carefully. For anybody who hasn't played mapview yet it is fairly easy once you get it set up. I haven't felt this alive since the time I shot down all three of my buddies UK HB in the old version with one throw of the dice. He was getting all cocky with his bombing raids and came in on me. I asked if 2 aces are snake eyes then what are 3 aces - apparently their called you FU__ing As__ole. Go figure.

[pagan]

US goes with Naval Industry

US builds 5 Subs + 1 Trany

US attacks ***-Hawaii fleet --and gets smacked (not really.. 3 hits each)
----*** loses DD+FTR , usa loses TN+FTR

US places Tn in Atlantic

US places 5 SS in pacific

side note: USSR 2 --> 1 inf attack on china void treaty , prep for manch hit
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[pagan]

Russian Front
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[pagan]

Russian increase in hostilities towards the peaceful Japanese people

We had a PACT damn it !
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[pagan]

I wanted to take ATLANTIC WALL

however due to the US preoccupation with the pacific, and the concerted effort to utilize an Orange Crush through IPC depletion....

german's kriegsmarine is in no danger of dying anytime soon...

I am forced to take PanzerBlitz....
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[psychotropic]

You didn't leave me much choice but to defend the pacific. If you think I'm gonna let your subs strole around like it's free taking convoy damage off me you can forget it. As such I had to hit pearl. I needed that DD gone incase you had any ideas about fooling with my subs. If it wasn't for my previous agreement with Stalin to send fighter aid I would have swung around again an obliterated the rest of your fleet.

[psychotropic]

Rommel, underestimating how well the US expeditionary forces in North Africa were dug in as well as their resolve, takes heavy casualties during their reoccupation efforts. Sources close to the front report a 75% loss of men and machinery. One man was heard to say - "I saw Rommel ridding in on the gun of his tank wearing a dress and a cowboy hat yelling - get them yankees, yahoo!! It was like he ws drunk or something. At one point they seemed to shoot in the opposite direction of the US troops, though aiming didn't do them much good either. With Hitlers redeployment of the entire german fleet to the coast of west europe it could be a while before Africa sees any reinforcements.

Meanwhile, on the eastern front, German forces move into Ukraine and Karellia with relative ease. The same should have occured in Bellorusia as well however due to logistical problems with the russian resupply, someone had lost the vodka. As such they were all out looking for it when the panzers rolled in and no one was hit. The german's, uncertain and sensing a trap decided to withdraw.

Back in Berlin, Hitler is being praised by friend and foe alike for his forsight in resupplying his infantry divisions. 11 new divisions have been mobilized and allied forces fear they will be heading east.

[DocD]

This is such a cool game to watch. Thanks guys. I love the ad lib and commentary, keep it up.

Also, for all those non-Enhancers out there, who may have stumbled accidently onto this thread, this game just shows how excitingly complex a game of Enhanced goes.....it's move and countermove, *** for tat, NA against NA....it's great!!

[cousin_joe]

This one looks like it's shaping up to be a good one . Psychotropic's got some skeels :D Looks like pagan's gonna have his hands full... come on pagan... 1st DocD and now possibly the new guy :eek: We might have to bring series out of retirement, just to get you a win :D ;)

[psychotropic]

Churchill continues his policy of bombing the german war industry. A night raid on Berlin scores a direct hit on a bearing factory resulting in the loss of 6 million man hours of industrial production. The British Africa fleet repositions to the coast of india and is resupplied by the Royal Navy. The fleet admiral is relieved with the full return of his fighter squaron. The fleet is now well positioned to attack several targets in Japan's weak inner rim. The Emporer himself has called for the immediate redeployment of the Japanese navy and asian land forces to offset this threat. Mean while Montgomery solidifies his position in africa and reinforces with 2 armor divisions. Without further supplies german hopes in North Africa begin to fade.

Back at home an all volunteer force strikes a daring raid to liberate norway. Despite the certainty of death volunteers had to be turned away at the doors.

In sadder news the home fleet has been repositioned to canada for fear of anhilation by the massive German fleet that threatens to take control of the Atlantic.

[pagan]

yamato replies to his generals calls about a possible two pronged attack onto the islands & asia...

'...we shall deal with one thing at a time...'
'...we shal wait until the evening (J5) to see how great the day has been...'

---I refuse to budge from my Kaitanic strategy.
---12 ipcs lost from germany in 2 sbrs is ludicris
---i am very used to japan being beat up on, this is no different. Just do the minimm necessary to keep the averages on japanese favor, and the rest is the fate of dice.
---as for bad axis dice: i've seen and had worse ; the pendulum will return its swing
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[pagan]

japanese overview

---Naval Advantage - JET POWER (missed the rolls!) <when it rains it pours>

---hawaii now belongs to japan
---china is abandonded
---IC build on Kwangtung

---japan is getting triple-teamed
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[pagan]

Japan is getting triple-teamed on asia (same-old-story...)

--and if dice don't start hitting...at least.... AVERAGE.... then asia looks dead
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[pagan]

here is the ANOTHER factor Japan is going to be dealing with....
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[pagan]

This one looks like it's shaping up to be a good one . Psychotropic's got some skeels :D Looks like pagan's gonna have his hands full... come on pagan... 1st DocD and now possibly the new guy :eek: We might have to bring series out of retirement, just to get you a win :D ;)

DocD --> you do realize that the above quote is a Slap in your direction...


Public losses are humbling.

I will continue to do these public games in order to break that pride of mine that laments in its so disheaveled form from a fear of a loss. I am master of myself, if not the game. (but i wouldnt say that i suck either!)

I will continue to play my percentages....if I have a wining chance of 60%..then I will lose 4 out of 10 games.

If my opponents out-played me, then i will learn from them.

My strategy is sound, the odds are just fickle-odds. I refuse to think of them other than that. I also PREFER the blind swing on those odds... makes life a little less predictable
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[DocD]

Yeah, I see CJ wants to trash talk me....it's cool. If he plays me as poorly as he did roll in that game he lost, I've got nothing to worry about. :D

And, I've never seen the same country roll back to back 6's on SBRs!! That's insane dice rolling! Good luck man, but it looks as if tropic has got her all locked up. :)

[pagan]

Russian assaults pile up... they seem to want to get that free IC !!!
USA puts and IC on Sinkiang
USA build 4 more SS and piled 'em off california (9 in the water! :eek: )
USA moved BB+SS to Panama __looks like he is coming Atlantic with them
UK is certain to do something with that navy under India

---Asia looks bad, but hell, this is Japan we are talking about!
---without the ***-SS build the US-SS builds would hurt MORE im thinking
---nothing much to be done
---DocD thinks axis is almost out of it :( ; but he should give my superior brain some credit :D
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[pagan]

germany 3 Europe - Overview

--- SBR + CRD = 11 ipcs lost from UK
--- 7 ARM purchase
---Consolidation in AngloEgyptSudan (AES)
---Brazil now belongs to Germany , and with no TNs close it may be worth the grab to get them to move from the north
---PanzerBlitz is building __still need time to get Russia to forgoe asia
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[pagan]

germany 3 - Afrika Overview
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[axis_roll]

this is a fun game to follow along with...
Each side is running a game plan that are very solid.
Japan (as usual) has more issues to deal with than Germany

I love the sub and naval purchases that Enhanced is creating!

This is definitely a great rule set.

[psychotropic]

Allies call DDay. With the redeployment of the German fleet and Panzers positioning to mass on the eastern front, the United States and Britian have decided to unleash the largest amphibious assualt in history.

In other news - British India forces launched a successful campaign taking over French Indo China. Japanese defensive forces were completely over run and the survivors were heard screeming Buntai as they fled into the mountains. Interpretors are unsure of this words exact meaning but think it is something like OH SH_T!!!

The majority of the British India fleet has repositioned to the coast of Africa while British Subs move to the coast of Kwangtung to disrupt convoys.

Montgomery recieves two more armor divisions in south africa as he repositions his forces to push Rommel all the way back to Germany.

[pagan]

just to let you see my global plans.....

[this would be a good time for the die-pendulum to swing my favor]:mad:

you can do the odds for yourself, it comes out to about 80% japan favor (which means i may just break even!)
----taking W.USA allows for a 10 IPc plunder + shutting down pacific building for 1 'at-least' one complete round.
----USA BB+SS playing 'Koy' in panama canal will ahve to decide on Ger-TN off brazil and going far atlantic OR trying to counter ***-fleet off W.USA
----This should give me time to-recoupe if usa rebuilds pacific + support asia
----should USA go atlantic, then japan wouldn't mind at all...
----Russia + UK looks like a double-up on Kwangtung
----All odds are my favor in all regards.:)
----but then again...i'm playing the odds...and there are alot of __IFs__:(


D-Day was called on UK-turn
---USA _ UK have 3 TNs and full units accompanyment
---UK has 3 FTRs as well
---UK has a single BB for bombardment

---W.E. IS defended by NOTHING (Thank You, Sir!)
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[psychotropic]

I think you need to check your facts pagan. My read of the rules says I can load UK units onto my US transports. Plus I have 3UK fighters you didn't mention.

"On the US turn, the US player uses your eligible units in his combat and non combat..."

[psychotropic]

D-Day Invasion

-Once during the game, at the start of UK's turn, you may declare a D-Day Invasion, a combined attack of UK and US forces which occurs on the US turn. D-Day may only target WEur, and all attacking land and sea units must come in through SZ 7.

-Conduct your UK turn as normal, including combat and NCM for any units you do not anticipate participating in D-Day. Any units being used on UK's turn, be it combat or NCM, cannot be used on the US turn. Also, newly purchased UK units cannot be used either.

-On the US turn, the US player uses your eligible units in his combat and non-combat moves together with his own units. UK units can only be involved in combat in WEur proper. The one exception is loaded TRNs which can be involved in combat in SZ 7 as part of the amphibious assault. UK DDs and BBs can bombard WEur but only if SZ 7 was empty at the start of the US turn.

-The UK and US must agree on casualties, otherwise the defender chooses. AAGun fire is rolled separately against each nation. Techs or NAs still only apply to the units of the power that has them. D-Day may not be called off once declared.

-If WEur ever becomes controlled by Allies prior to D-Day, Allies can no longer conduct D-Day




Interesting wording here.

I believe D-Day is for Land and Sea units only, such as US could not utilize UK-AIR units for clearing waters and attacking W.E. ___ but this needs clarified

I have always played this as UK units with Uk TNs, US units with US TNs
combined units such as US TNs + UK Units as still being required to load up as would this allied-load-up be normally ( i.e. uk turn...uk loads onto US TNs)

--two sentences later it is talking about 'loaded trannys'

--i do remeber there being discussion about the need for UK to pre-load its units or if US could do it for them, and the later was decided... (but i don't think this meant that US could load up UK units onto US TNs)

Cousin Joe will have to clarify this, however I would be surprised if the US could just load up UK units onto US TNs.

.......

I think it only talks about land and sea units to clarify that they have to come thru sea zone 7. Planes can come from anywhere but must fight in WE. You couldn't pre load the US trannies with UK troops because that would be a non-combat move and the units would then be ineligible for D-Day. The only way this would work would be to have them sit there for 2 rounds. The only other way is to suggest that you can transport other countries units except during D-Day. Neither of these make sense and would turn a supposed advantage into a restriction. We always play the other way. My buddy always builds trannie and tanks or artillery for the US and inf for the UK and moves them all at the same time on mostly US transports. I would be suprised if this wasn't the case.

[cousin_joe]

I think it only talks about land and sea units to clarify that they have to come thru sea zone 7. Planes can come from anywhere but must fight in WE. You couldn't pre load the US trannies with UK troops because that would be a non-combat move and the units would then be ineligible for D-Day. The only way this would work would be to have them sit there for 2 rounds. The only other way is to suggest that you can transport other countries units except during D-Day. Neither of these make sense and would turn a supposed advantage into a restriction. We always play the other way. My buddy always builds trannie and tanks or artillery for the US and inf for the UK and moves them all at the same time on mostly US transports. I would be suprised if this wasn't the case.

Psychotropic is absolutely correct here. Pagan is reading things that aren't there. There is nothing to say that US units must be loaded on US TRNs and vice versa with UK. There is also nothing to say UK air units cannot be used. In fact, the rules explicitly state the UK units are used together with the US ones. Also AAGun Fire being rolled seperately would mean UK Air units are involved.

Reading with no pre-concieved notions, the rules do make sense, but I will look to add a couple clarifications just to make things absolutely clear :)

[pagan]

i have played this very wrong for awhile now.

ok, then.

I had prepped 3 INF for what was availbale (by my understanding) , I would have never put them on W.E. to be killed, i would have left them on germany for a counter attack.

Perhaps my opponent would be willing to alter this here...?????

[cousin_joe]

That would be at psychotropic's discretion, but I understand your rationale and would agree that that would be the gentlemanly thing to do :)

[psychotropic]

Yes I would agree to this. If the decision had gone the other way I would have asked for a chance to make some changes as well.

[pagan]

This is what i like about a Friendly game

I would have allowed you to not declare D-Day, or whatever your change was.

I will not ask about adding +2INF on Japan....:rolleyes:

I allow the Uk ftr to live on Uk-***_1, which would have allowed a 4SS+1TN J1 drop , where the TN would have been free from worry, with significant help to asia.

3INF & 1FTR swing is a 9-10IPC + strat modifying consolations from each opponent

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[pagan]

PAGAN
----sitting on his combat movement brings in FTRs from manch to ensure the submerging UK SS, which could get annoying if it doesn't DIE !
----Combat for W.USA Begins....


PSYCHOTROPIC
----taking the time to decide on his 5SS off W.USA
----2 hits from 3 ***-SS
----2 hits from 5 Usa-SS
----...To Submerge, or Not to Submerge. That is the question...
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[psychotropic]

I appreciate the UK fighter thing. :)

Like I said it was origonally landed in BURY. Then on a road trip(cell phone) I was talking to my buddy who was looking at a map. He said it couldn't make it to BURY and that I had miscalculated. He said the only legal landing point was china. I thought he was wrong but he was looking at the map. I thought maybe I had misread the Mapview lines, as I have only ever brought the DD into this fight in the past, and I couldn't remeber the board. Not wanting to look like a fool or slow the game down, as I would be away a couple days, I had my adimin support email the change. I was trying to avoid coming back to an email from you reminding me that I couldn't land my fighter in BURY..When I got back and looked at the board I realized I was right in the first place and felt that my origonal move should have to stand as it was legal. It wasn't a shift of strategy on my part just undoing what shouldn't have been done in the first place. I have since slapped my buddy in the head and told him to quit sniffing glue. :)

[pagan]

Game Update:

Bad dice CONTINUE to stall the axis team... (all im asking for is AVERAGE!)

W.USA is now in the hands of Japan
--1INF+1ARM+2FTR vs. 3INF = 1 surviving ARM
--loss of defending Jet fighters puts an easy ***-naval defense into a 50-50 battle

UK-SS off of Kwangtung has survived PLUS got a kill on ***-SS

Asia is gonna be tight .... i suggest a 2 round 50-50 series of battles

Again...the axis are playing the odds. Odds should be heavily favored on Japan, however due to the outcomes...odds are only SLIGHTLY in favor of Japan, with mass casualties
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[psychotropic]

US purchase- IC, transport, 3armor, inf


Looks like things are starting to go in your favor. 3inf,art,arm against 1arm in West US and I only get in with a tank. I was sweating. :eek:

Allies land 4inf and 2 tanks in West Europe. :cool:

US special forces move into Manchuria :cool:

BB takes out german tranny off Brazil :cool:

All I'm waiting for now is to see if your using Keitans off LA where we have your tranny, 3subs,cv, and 2BB against my 7subs and Bomber.

[psychotropic]

Momentum starts to shift in favor of the axis. After a fairly good initial start to the battle with the japanese fleet things turn for the worse in the second round when *** forces score 5 direct hits practically obliterating the silent service. The Japs save both BB,cv and a sub. The american bomber lands in panama to reinforce the forces set to retake Brazil. The US reinforces Asia with a IC placement in china. US and Russian forces set a powerful blockade against *** forces trying to push into the mainland.

Russia has sollid success in a series of attacks aimed at expanding their holdings. Norway has been secured and Ukraine and Belorussia once again change hands.

In a suprising move Stalin sends a fighter to help defend British forces in WE.

[pagan]

Japan's poor dice didn't get them killed.

--Expected Jet defense would have made the US-SS attack suicide
--never shoulda happened
--japan navy was in a straffing sub killing pose
--shutting down US production for a round in pacific + more ***-SS
-----but it didn't happen that way

Allied-Asia now has a Second US-IC...
---I did not expect that
---if US wants to build on them, then he's gonna be short in the water
---Lend Lease for Russia
---UK fleet still there

Japan-Asia...
---multiple rounds of calculations have paid off as japan played minimalistic
---Ready for Asia campaign
---sz 59 _ Uk-SS + ***-SS floating together as friends
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[pagan]

German Blitzkrieg Build and Move.
---attack on W.E. was a Devastating crunch by the German Panzer division with 5 hits out of 7 shots
---UK infantry were running for the Tn pickup , but their navy ignored them. Somethiing about MacArthur not signing the release forms, or something...
---USSR-FTR finally landing in france for vacation, dies an untimely death. german forces put his head on a pike and bring it back to berlin
---Germany takes a stab into Belorussia (previous german demise not off the mind) with a strong force
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[pagan]

German Afrika...
----Afrika holdings have been abandonded due to unecessary hostilities by UK
----Monty will just have to understand that Rommel has a head cold at the moment, and that they should meet elsewhere. (Rommel's personal plane is ready for pick-up!)
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[psychotropic]

Well it looks as though Africa has been secured as Uk forces retake egypt and amass tanks on the boarder. The British fleet is safely patrolling off the coast.

In home waters the main British launch a suprise raid on the German fleet. Casualties were heavy on both sides with the British taking the brunt of it. During the raid the German u-boats were severely mauled, all but eliminating convoy raiding. The fleet admiralty is calling it a tactical victory for the germans but a strategic and economic victory for the Brits as production rolls to 32 and the treasury collects 30ipc for the first time since the start of the game.

With the US poised to retake Brazil and the USS Missouri on route to join the fleet in the English channel, allied forces are hopeful that the war of the Atlantic will soon be over.

[DocD]

This is a classic format for German domination of Russia. Grab what you can in Africa, punish the Allies for as long as you can in the Atlantic, but never have Manstein short of Panzer Divisions rolling east.

Unfortunately, Japan may lose a key VC in Shanghia which will hurt like the dickens, but so far a sound strategy indeed.

[pagan]

DocD..you are a doomsayer.
---my japanese strategy has been very well thought out:cool:
---Minimalistic Asia (under certain circumstances) + all out Kaitanic builds is SOUND
---meticulously analyzed by my amazing mathematical prowess:D
---has been survivng dice rolls on average of the Third Interquartile (Vollick probably the only guy to know what that means, but basically always high average dice numbers)
---removed the Allied domination of IPCs early to extend the game

...except for poor average, everything is going along just fine.:)

[pagan]

German 5 overview...

--'The Untermarine-Schiff must be rebuilt!' ...although stunning to the generals, the actions were carried out and ARM production was replaced with SS production... 'Nostrodamus knows me!' , is all that could be heard from the Fuhrer's bombastic rants.

--German panzer divisions have united and quickly took siege to Ukraine, the sight of the first Russian Trangression on the Fatherland...

--We have lost contact with german forces on holiday in Brazil

--On a side note: Rommel has decided to go sight-seeing in Persia, and took a plan towards E.E.

--USA has forgone the pacific (zero ships + zero built = no mas!) , preffering to suffer convoy indignaties from the masterful ***-SS crews _Hirohito's Kaitanic plan has remained in full (too bad they can't get through the panama canal)

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[psychotropic]

Churchill, frustrated with the convoy raiding of the Axis powers leads the allied charge to even the score. In a suprise move he devotes the entire UK production line to the development of ROCKET technology. With the security of Africa now a certainty a second rocket launcher is quickly moved into position in Egypt.

The campaign is further bolstered by another successful SBR destroying another 6 million man hours of production. This time a rubber factory was hit.

The British fleet repositions off the coast of Algeria and is poised to unite with the African fleet in the Med and threaten the soft underbelly of the faciast pigs - I mean Germans.

British Asian forces join thier allies in China in a attempt to further defend industrial production.

[psychotropic]

Apparently the home fleet didn't get it's sailing orders and remains close to home. Man I hate not being able to see the whole board at once.

[pagan]

Germany 6

Panzer Divisions
---Massive Blitzkrieg with consolidation into W.Russia, circumventing the re-enforced Caucasus, the strategic european zone was easily taken
---Rommel & Mannstein are now aiming their turrets at Moscow !
---more ARM on the way...
---USSR is in a bit of a pickle

Kriegsmarine
---Outfitted with new SS models, their first engagement was the lowly red-sub, which now resides down below in Davey-Jones' Locker
---Convoy Raiding is now at full throttle, with barely missing a beat!
---both Allied powers (UK+US) have been beleeding since the begining of the war

Afrika Korps
---Russia has decided to take its battle against the Reich all the way into Persia. The Afrika Korps put heavy damage upon the reds, they will be remembered for their valor in service.
---Rommel, hearing of his Korps demise in his absence showed no mercy to the cowardly Russians as the red bodies were used to grease the tracks of the armor divisions.

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[axis_roll]

Man I hate not being able to see the whole board at once.
I don't know what your screen resolution is set at, but pushing it to maximum setting (I'm at 1280 by 1024 on a 19 inch monitor) and you can pretty much see 50% of the world.

Hope that helps your globabl viewing.

Remember you can always push the res back down for using other apps like word, etc....

[psychotropic]

Well I have to hand it to you Pagan. This is the most effective axis fleet strategy I've seen. Though having seen it once I now have an effective counter. We'll save that for next time. As for now; basically your four VC's are in range in the next couple of turns unless I can pull somethinng out of a hat.

[pagan]

All i'm asking for is AVERAGE.

I hope you don't stay lucky, or i can't win, as you are too good of a player.:(

My theoretical japanese strategy has held up to game play. If you were a poor opponent then I would not even say that. CJ never considered how effective the 4BB ***-sraffing strat could be until he played against it. Im sure no one ever thought of going all out Kaitans either. (...but im sure DocD has been taking furious notes, i also remember his Boo-Bird taunts of my BB builds...)

This is also probably the first time some of these people have seen the all out US-SS thing get shut-down. I was actually happy you did it, since that was exactly what i wanted to go up against.

If there were no counter then i woud quit playing. There cannot be a OPTIMAL strategy or else the game is broke just like AA , AAE , & AAP. Broke games with 1 way to play effectively

DocD still thinks Japan is losing the game for me, when in fact it has been the true strength to the axis team (BOO on DocD.... BOOO !):p
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[DocD]

Hey, let's cut Dr. Doom some slack here.

I haven't seen a map update of Japan or Asia since J3. It's not my fault I don't know what's going on there.

No Map updates--BOOOOO!! :)

[psychotropic]

I made a couple of ealy mistakes related to non-combat movements I forgot to do and a strategy that I wanted to try that just couldn't unfold because of the way this current games was. As such I lost a couple of tempo's (to use a chess term) that I am missing now. The biggest tactical mistake I made was taking my subs in after your fleet. Even though you ended up geting lucky in that battle, the smarter play would have been to scramble towards your newly built transport fleet and make you come after me. I also wonder if I shouldn't have taken another shot at you in Pearl instead of pulling out to support my lend lease. But that one could have gone either way.

For now we will see what happens. I still have a couple of ideas.

[pagan]

(DocD update)

Looks just like Japan-Asia 3 , just more stuff

[pagan]

United Kingdom....

---Southern fleet moves into Mediteranean
---Jump on open territories to increase necessary clearing zones

---load up on US-TN to add possible clearing of W.E.

---Rocket attacks + BMR
---Purchased 2 new BMRs (zone clearing rather than SBR)

---almost every Uk land units on the entire map are in this picture
.

[pagan]

Japan....

---Very steady
---Captured 3 VCs
---has given Germany alot of time
---Singkiang is about to fall (61% for japan) _and each round the win% increases
---allies are bleeding their few defending units on Manch and FIC

---should germany fail (for some odd reason), and need to turtle-up, Japan should be able to win the game for the axis __hoepfully it never comes to that

---what's odd about this game, is that Axis are dominating every area _i think that is due to the loss of economic advantage by the allies (which is still temporary however)
.

[pagan]

Japan...

---Australia was taken
---***-BBs have been busy since J1

---***-SS _ 4 SS are still bleeding 8 ipcs from W.USA every round
.

[DocD]

Thanks Pagan. It looked as if you were toast on the mainland. It would have been nice to see how you came back from certain destruction there. Oh well, doesn't matter. Barring really bad luck, you got this one won.

[pagan]

I was never in certain destruction ; i just couldn't say anything and give my opponent any ideas...

look at the picture... japan 3 - asia (just before Japan 4)

Japan can put 7 units on asia each round : IC + 2TN
---i know it was 50-50 for a round there but allies would have used every unit+ftr to take kwang, and then japan had 4 units (2inf+2art) +ftrs+bmr+BB to retake it
---japan was never close to being kicked off the mainland
---there isn't a single US ship in the pacific

USA can put 2, and then 4 units on asia each round : 2IC

--consideration for the first picture to the latest Japan 6 - Asia, should make it obvious
.

[pagan]

Moscow has fallen

Axis now hold 12 VCs at the end of Germany 7

Allies are poised to take back 3 of the VCs
---germany took moscow rather than clear the Balkans
---shutting down Russia + IPCs take presidence

Germany is stacked to decrease the chances of the Long-Shot

How much longer will my opponent continue this futile endeavor?
---Germany has quite a bit of cash
---If the Allies clear the VCs Once, can they do it Twice?
.

[psychotropic]

Not so fast Pagan.

Stalin fearing the collapse of moscow and the survival of the facist pigs orders his tanks to the Balkans. "If we die they die" he screames when the order was questioned. Molotov has not been seen since. The allies, in an effort to support this last ditch effort put out a series of decoys and extra targets in hopes of confusing German communications. The plan works beautifully. :D

Meaningless troop movements into Canada support the illusion of transports waiting to resupply Europe.

Bomber squadrens are left lightly defended in Britian.

All in hopes of drawing fighters away from the defence of Berlin.

The lure of a quick victory over a certain victory is created in hopes of cashing in on Hitlers ego/psychosis. All goes as planned. :D

The map above is german propaganda. Designed to try and fool the allis. But it won't work. Careful calculations and positioning designed to give Germany too much to think about pay off. :D

This has been a game of some give and take in terms of non combat movement changes and on one occasion allowing a change to occur for the german's, aftter D-Day was called, that would have negated the need to call D-Day. I put a stop to this on UK's second last turn when I forgot to move my fleet, asked and you said okay - but then I decided that it was too much and I had to live with my mistake.

I am now begrudgingly allowing you to change some of your non-combat moves but you can't change your mind about battles already fought. :mad:

Combat moves are based on assumptions we make about how things are going to look after. Most the time we are right but sometimes the pressure and complexity make it hard for us to see the end clearly. Some players take advantage of this - psychological warfare.

[CATCH-22]

Now I'm confused. :confused: Under which walnut shell was the Soviet army hidden and I wan't my twenty back.

Should this game instead, be titled Analytical Warfare vs Psychological Warfare... ?

[psychotropic]

The game has been called on account of irreconcilable differences. Pagan sent his final map ( after dice rolls and unit placement), then decided he didn't like the look of it and changed his combats (ie forget that I attacked your tranny, you can have it back I would rather have those ftr's in Berlin. I think he also wanted to change his combat for West Europe as well - again after all Battles had already been fought. I said I don't think you can do that but if you want to change some of your non-combat moves go ahead. He said I was not being fair and quit. :(

Basically at the start of his turn he decided to go for a quick victory and, after he finished his turn and sent it off to me for my turn, decided it would be better to go for the longer turn more sure victory and wanted to undo some of his combats in order to make it this way. :eek:

I have played many a friendly game but never one that allowed changes to be made for units that had rolled dice. If I am being unreasonable please let me know and I will gladly appologize. :confused:

For the record. Pagan's strategy was well thought out and the game should go to the axis. The way it turned out only changed things from no chance of an allied win to a slight (very slight) chance of an allied win. HE HAD 7INF, 7ARM, AND 2 FIGHTERS IN BERLIN(add 2 inf with a nc change). THE UK COULD HIT WITH 1INF, 1ARM, 3FTR'S 3BMR'S but would likely have to divert one of thos ftr's and an inf to ensure that russia gets another turn. THE STATES COULD THEN GO IN WITH A BMR AND 3 FTR'S (LongRG) but again would have to divert one of those ftr's to ensure russia gets another turn. RUSSIA COULD THEN GO IN WITH 8ARM AND 4FTR'S. Check allied placement on map above. I figure I had about a 10 -15% chance of taking Berlin which would have given me the game.

This is my first game on this forum and I am very conscious of this fact. I am trying to balance fitting in with fair play. I would appreciate some feedback on this matter.

[DocD]

Too bad things fell apart like they did. I would have enjoyed seeing the ending.

Needless to say you guys have brought up an interesting topic that has been touched on before but can definitely need another go over.

I, for one, try and use common sense on these matters. Even in friendly games, a move is a move in my book. Now, gentlemen can agree on taking back or correcting moves before combat, that is fine. But I too am of the notion that once the bullets fly (ie dice roll), that's it. Unless, an illegal move was made, which shouldn't have happened anyway, the matter is a done deal. No do-overs or what's the point. If a non-combat move is to be changed, it had better be done before the next round of combat or again, what's the point.

Mistakes, made by politicians and generals, real-world or fantasy, still cost men their lives, real-world or plastic, and that's life....or death, depending on how you look at it.

From what I can see, I agree with you tropic. This is an Axis victory 75% of the time regardless. Oh well, I guess that's life.

[Stephen]

There are two sides to every story, but I agree, once dice are thrown, the move can't be called back. In fact, I'd argue that once a single die is thrown, *no* combat can be called back. That's just the way it is. If the aggressor wants to undo something, a request can be made but the defender has every right to say no.
If what you're saying is true, you have every right to do UK's turn according to the proper end of Germany's turn, and should Pagan decide not to continue, you score a win by default.

[CATCH-22]

This is amazing. What we have here is a prime example of why rules even exist. They are put into place to prevent situations like this from arising.

My opinion is that good sportsmanship comes from abiding by the commonly excepted rules of play and expecting/holding your opponent to those same standards; and then, graciously accepting the outcomes regardless what they may be.

It is when individuals start making concessions that they invite trouble and discourse. It appears, in the case of this game, that there was nothing wrong with how the game played out. All the unnecessary tension stems from the concessions that were made prior to the end of the game.

Sorry it ended like this... I loved reading the commentary.

Oh yea, take the win. That maneuver of putting the Soviet armor in the Balkans is not luck, but a calculated risk based on the situation at hand. It was bold and showed tenacity. If I lost to you like this, I'd buy you a beer!

Bravo! :D

[cousin_joe]

The game has been called on account of irreconcilable differences. Pagan sent his final map ( after dice rolls and unit placement), then decided he didn't like the look of it and changed his combats (ie forget that I attacked your tranny, you can have it back I would rather have those ftr's in Berlin. I think he also wanted to change his combat for West Europe as well - again after all Battles had already been fought. I said I don't think you can do that but if you want to change some of your non-combat moves go ahead. He said I was not being fair and quit.

Basically at the start of his turn he decided to go for a quick victory and, after he finished his turn and sent it off to me for my turn, decided it would be better to go for the longer turn more sure victory and wanted to undo some of his combats in order to make it this way.

I have played many a friendly game but never one that allowed changes to be made for units that had rolled dice. If I am being unreasonable please let me know and I will gladly appologize.

For the record. Pagan's strategy was well thought out and the game should go to the axis. The way it turned out only changed things from no chance of an allied win to a slight (very slight) chance of an allied win. HE HAD 7INF, 7ARM, AND 2 FIGHTERS IN BERLIN(add 2 inf with a nc change). THE UK COULD HIT WITH 1INF, 1ARM, 3FTR'S 3BMR'S but would likely have to divert one of thos ftr's and an inf to ensure that russia gets another turn. THE STATES COULD THEN GO IN WITH A BMR AND 3 FTR'S (LongRG) but again would have to divert one of those ftr's to ensure russia gets another turn. RUSSIA COULD THEN GO IN WITH 8ARM AND 4FTR'S. Check allied placement on map above. I figure I had about a 10 -15% chance of taking Berlin which would have given me the game.

This is my first game on this forum and I am very conscious of this fact. I am trying to balance fitting in with fair play. I would appreciate some feedback on this matter.

Hey psychotropic,

Sorry your first AAR game online came to this conclusion. From Pagan's point of view, he probably wants to match up his best move against your best move, and probably figures that since his dice rolls were not lousy, that changes to his combats would be acceptable (whereas if he rolled very poorly, then it would like he's changing combat on the basis of bad dice, rather than changing over to his best move).

Now, in a friendly game, I can see where one would allow this. However, this is always at the Defender's discretion. The Defender is in no way obligated to allow the changes, as the dice have already been rolled, and they should be able to capitalize on the Attackers mistakes, which they may have missed due to the Fog of War. If the Defender allows it, fine, make the changes. However, if the Defender doesn't allow it, he is perfectly right to do so, and the Attacker should not complain.

With that said, the unfortunate part in all of this, is that the Attacker is Pagan, and if you've been around on these boards long enough, you should know that in Pagan's mind, he is always right :) If you look up the pagan vs. cousin_joe grudge match, we also ended up calling the game due to "irreconcilable differences".

If you're really looking to avoid further events like this, I would advise playing in one of the online clubs, like AAMC where several of us play. They have specific rules that players must abide by in their games, as well as personnel that can settle any unresolved disputes. Signup is free, and you should be able to find some good opponents there. Also, if you really like playing AARe, there will soon be an AARe Championship Belt to go after - you'll have to beat some really tough competition to get it though :D