Euro Game Vs. American Mechanics (or wargames)

[Moderator Sinister]

Over the past few years I have witnessed the gradual take over of euro games and euro game mechanics in the gaming world and I wanted to know everyone's thoughts.

[Sinister]

I, for one, don't understand why euro games are so popular.


I tried settlers of cataan....find it boring.
I tried Carcasonne...find it REALLY boring
Have no interest in being a shipping clerk in Puerto Rico

I can appreciate some of the mechanics employed but honesty, why are these game so popular?

[TrimChris]

It's scary when Mod Sin and Sin talk to each other...

The basic Carcasonne and Settlers game aren't the greatest Eurogames by any means. They are gateway games great for introducing people to Eurogames though. Variants of these games are quite better than the vanilla versions.

On the other hand, Puerto Rico is one of the greatest games ever made. It is a deep game with nominal luck. Like many Eurogames, it is a clever system of mechanics playable in a short amount of time. You aren't any more a shipping clerk than you are a logistics manager in A&A.

Eurogames are generally more about mechanic than they are about theme. This may turn off some people. But many offer a great deal of tough choices in a quick time span. I'm glad these games are as dominant as they are. But I love my American style games too.

[Moderator Sinister]

I can accept some people turned on by this style of game but even with a strategic componet it still isn't themed a way I find interesting. Which leads me to the arguement that theme first building rules upon theme, is much more appealing to a rules first game, with the theme tacked on.

[TrimChris]

You might argue that it's a little like the chicken or the egg? Only I think mechanics beats theme. No matter how great a theme, will you play it much if the mechanics are horrid? On the other hand, there are many great games with awesome mechanics, but no theme at all -- abstract games.

Abstract games are the most played in all of human history, think Go or Chess.

[Moderator Sinister]

You might argue that it's a little like the chicken or the egg? Only I think mechanics beats theme. No matter how great a theme, will you play it much if the mechanics are horrid? On the other hand, there are many great games with awesome mechanics, but no theme at all -- abstract games.

Abstract games are the most played in all of human history, think Go or Chess.

I own go and chess but play them little. Despite the high strategic play its simply to boring to play without theme. Perhaps this my rpg side of me speaking but honestly, as sound as chess is, who wants to play it over Axis and Allies? Not Me.

Plus I prefer the mechanic to somehow be thought of as part of the game. For instance the RPG deadlands (about cowboys and a sci fi western,) is played with poker cards and chips, how cool is that? Often times euro games are played with blocks, how boring is that?

Once again I bow to the strategic value of such games but prefer the neat playing pieces. You could take the mechanics of a Puerto Rico and apply them to any game and it would be sound, but does that mean fun?

[TrimChris]

I own go and chess but play them little. Despite the high strategic play its simply to boring to play without theme. Perhaps this my rpg side of me speaking but honestly, as sound as chess is, who wants to play it over Axis and Allies? Not Me.

There are only more chess players than any other game in history (except maybe Go). I play less chess nowadays but I played more chess than anything else for 20 years.

Plus I prefer the mechanic to somehow be thought of as part of the game. For instance the RPG deadlands (about cowboys and a sci fi western,) is played with poker cards and chips, how cool is that? Often times euro games are played with blocks, how boring is that?

Sure cool bits are nice, but really they are just toys. If a game has some of the best play ever I dont care if I'm using twigs and pebbles.

Once again I bow to the strategic value of such games but prefer the neat playing pieces. You could take the mechanics of a Puerto Rico and apply them to any game and it would be sound, but does that mean fun?

Yes.

[Moderator Sinister]

Well I think that's chess has those numbers because it's such an old game. I think too that people who aren't "gamers" play chess.

If we took gamers and asked them what game they play most often I doubt it would be chess although a higher number would say most certianly that they have played chess at some point in their lifetime.

I guess it's a real matter of what motivates you to game. If its the pure sense of competition then games of chess, and eurogames are going to appeal to you. If it's a sense of "oh this looks cool and I can pretend to be a space monkey, or general patton, or a zombie" then american style games are going to appeal to group b, which I guess I'm part of.

Trim makes the point of why play a game of horrid mechanics, and to an extent he's right. I say why play a game with a lame theme, and I think to an extent I'm right.

[TrimChris]

If people that play games are gamers, then chess players are gamers.

Many Eurogames and chess may share less theme in common, but then there's lots of people that love Eurogames but not chess.

Then there are Eurogames that are heavily themed too.

In general, I think mechanics has more general appeal then theme.

Yet Monopoly is the best selling game so what do we know?

[admiral_yamoto]

i love chess, yes, i agree with you sin, its kind of bland because its without a theme, but i always think of the battle of endor :D

i know this question has been asked a lot of times, but what are the differences between american and euro games?

my favourite games are axis and allies pacific, axis and allies revised, warhammer, and shogun.

[Moderator Keldar]

i love chess, yes, i agree with you sin, its kind of bland because its without a theme,........

I forced my chess game to have some theme.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/sabbat00/DSC01355-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/sabbat00/DSC01356-1.jpg

[admiral_yamoto]

THOSE ARE AMAZING :eek: :)