Question on an option

[BJessee]

On the Fire Control option, it indicates that you lock a register instead of dealing damage. The question we have is whether this locked register is considered "damaged" or not. For instance, if that was the first time you were shot, would you draw the full 9 cards or only 8? If you heal, is the register unlocked? If not, when does it unlock?

I thought the answer was fairly obvious, but it generated quite the debate. Thoughts?

[iiiHuman]

On the Fire Control option, it indicates that you lock a register instead of dealing damage. The question we have is whether this locked register is considered "damaged" or not. For instance, if that was the first time you were shot, would you draw the full 9 cards or only 8? If you heal, is the register unlocked? If not, when does it unlock?

I thought the answer was fairly obvious, but it generated quite the debate. Thoughts?
It's funny that you asked this right now. I have been in contact with Wizards' Customer Service over several issues around "Fire Control" and whether or not it is considered damage, and how to get rid of it if it is not. At first, they were saying it is NOT to be considered damage. But, this caused problems on how to get rid of a locked register if it is not damage and how to mark it as locked, etc. So, they went into discussion and I just received notice that they are issuing the following erratta and re-wording for "Fire Control:"

We're changing the function of Fire Control so that it actually does damage when it locks a register. Now the locked register can be unlocked in the usual ways (by repairing or powering down).

Here's the new wording for Fire Control:

"Whenever your robot damages another robot with its main laser, you may choose one of the target robot's registers and put the Damage token directly on it (locking that register) or choose one of that player's Options and destroy it. (The player can't discard an Option to avoid this effect.)"

This also means that the Ablative Coating will now work against Fire Control.


This was from:

Zephreum H.

Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST

=================

iiiHuman

[puggimer]

In addition, in the original, official RoboRally FAQ (mine is dated 5/16/97, and used to be located at http://www.wizards.com/Games/RoboRally/RoboRally_FAQ.html but is since gone, but I boardgamegeek.com has a copy) it states:

"Q: When a robot locks a register with Fire Control, how do you unlock that register? Do you have to power down to unlock the register or can you repair it like a point of damage on a repair site?
A: Treat the Fire Control damage as regular damage; you can choose to unlock one register for each point of damage you remove at a wrench site. If you power down, it of course will unlock all registers."

[iiiHuman]

In addition, in the original, official RoboRally FAQ (mine is dated 5/16/97, and used to be located at http://www.wizards.com/Games/RoboRally/RoboRally_FAQ.html but is since gone, but I boardgamegeek.com has a copy) it states:

"Q: When a robot locks a register with Fire Control, how do you unlock that register? Do you have to power down to unlock the register or can you repair it like a point of damage on a repair site?
A: Treat the Fire Control damage as regular damage; you can choose to unlock one register for each point of damage you remove at a wrench site. If you power down, it of course will unlock all registers."
Well, I did some searching on their site and found (among other things, including an "un-official" FAQ) the "official" FAQ you spoke about. However, some of them are now incorrect due to the change in some rules and card wording. First off, though, here is the new link:

http://www.bggfiles.com/viewfile.php3?fileid=4520

Although, as an example of something that has changed from this FAQ list, it states:

Q: What can a robot do when it is powered down?
A: Nothing. A powered down robot cannot fire weapons, receive option cards, tag checkpoints (if pushed onto them), update archive locations (ditto), or use turn programmed cards (for example, Shield). It cannot use any options unless the options specifically say they can be used while a robot is powered down. The robot basically becomes a lump that can be pushed around and suffer damage.

However, I have been in contact with WotC about issues such as this, and they have stated that a powered-down robot CAN "tag" (or "touch") a Flag Checkpoint for updating its archive position and for the purpose of hitting that Flag and moving onto the next one. A powered-down robot can even "touch" a Repair Site for updating an archive position. In fact, it gets a little more strange because they also said that your bot can also touch a Flag or Repair Site with the "Mechanical Arm" Option while powered-down. However, in any situation, a robot must actually be "ON" (not just "touching" with the Mechanical Arm) a Flag or Repair Site to receive repairs and upgrades (whether powered-up or powered-down). This last part is in direct contradiction to the old FAQs you referred to and that I posted a new link to.

In addition to several contradictions, the old FAQ list also points to "Virtual" rules and such. Not to mention "Double-Wrench" Repair Sites which are now "Wrench-Hammer" Repair Sites. I'm also sure that some of this old FAQ list is also based on different wording for some of the Option cards. The wording has changed on at least several of them. In the case of the "Fire Control" Option card, one of the problems is that the non-errata version stated it was "instead of damage." So, anyone should keep this in mind when referring to old FAQ lists on they find on Robo Rally.


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

Here are some additional questions that I have been in contact with Customer Service about, along with their answers. I do not agree with all of these and I am doing some follow-up like I did with the "Fire Control" Option. Maybe we will see some new "Errata" for some other Options because of it. :D Anyhow, I am breaking each question up into different sections according to the following format:

Q: = The original question as I worded it to Wizards' Customer Support.
iii: = Any additional comments I had submitted at the same time.
WotC: = This was their response.
NOTE: = If present, these are any NEW comments that I have regarding what they said back. Again, I am going to follow up on some of these since I do not agree with all of them or may need some additional clarification.

=====

Q: If you have both crab legs and dual processor and put in 2 cards for a particular
register, when do you have to decide which of those options you are using?

iii: The rulebook doesn't really seem to address this. However, for "Option Card
Priority" it does state: "When deciding how and when to use an Option card, sometimes who makes decisions first matters. In such cases, the player who started the game on Dock 1 on the Docking Bay makes decisions first, and then it goes in clockwise order. Each player gets one opportunity to announce how and if he or she is using an Option card." So, since it doesn't really seem to say anything else restricting this, it seems that you can choose at the last possible moment. Is this correct?

WotC: You would announce whether you're using either of these option cards (dual processor and crab legs) during the time you are programming your register.

=====

Q: Can you use reverse gear and dual processor together?

iii: This one may be a little tricky. The Dual Processor does not say that the movement card does not get executed. Rather, it just says it moves one space less. So, a reverse would normally move one back, but then moves one less due to the Dual Processor. However, when executing the Reverse Gear, it says you may move your robot back two spaces instead of one. So, the question arises whether or not it still applies because it is no longer moving back one.

WotC: Yes, you could use reverse gear and duel processor together. You could move back a single square and then turn using the rotate card.

=====

Q: If you have conditional and dual processor or crab legs and had 2 cards entered for a particular phase, can you use the conditional? What happens if you do?

iii: This is an interesting question. If so, you should also be able use the program
card you have placed on the "Conditional Program" Option to get around a locked
register. Correct?

WotC: Yes, you could use the conditional program with either dual program or crab legs, but you could only switch out a single card from either of these.

NOTE: They didn't answer here about the using it to get around a locked register, but
they address that issue in the next one.

=====

Q: Can you use conditional with abort switch (that is, abort and if you don't like the
card, use the conditional instead?) Can you use conditional to over-ride the effect of
scrambler?

iii: Another interesting situation. From the wordings on the Options, I'm leaning
toward that in this case it would not be allowed (just due to the timing of things).
But, it seems you should still be able to use it to get around a locked register.

WotC: Yes, you could use the conditional program to get around having a locked register. You could use the conditional program to substitute a card for for one of the cards that you replaced using abort switch.

NOTE: They didn't specifically address the use of it to override the Scrambler, however this seems to also answer that as yes, you can.

=====

Q: If you fall into a pit but still have the ablative coat option, does it absorb the 2
points of damage you receive for dying?

iii: I wanted to check on this myself. I know the rules state a bot that is destroyed
immediately loses an option of that player's choice. So, it seems the option will be
lost before the damage tokens are received. If you have another Option in addition to the "Ablative Coat" Option, I would say the Ablative Coat can still absorb the damage. Is this correct?

WotC: The ablative coat option would not absorb the 2 points of damage that you're required to come back into play with, after dying.

NOTE: It seems they really only addressed if it was your last option and you had to
sacrifice it as penalty for dying. They didn't really address if you still had the
option. So, I am going to reply back about this issue. However, they also said in the next section that you still get the 2 points for dying if you have to sacrifice "Superior Archive." I also do not agree with that, and will be replying about that at the same time.

=====

Q: When superior archive is your only option when you die, and you have to give it up, do you take the damage or not?

iii: I believe that it is pretty much a given that you would still NOT receive the two points of damage. Is that correct?

WotC: If you have to lose the superior archive, then you would indeed come back into play with 2 damage tokens.

NOTE: I do not agree with this. It seems different than it was intended. In this
case, you would need to have two options for it to work--one to sacrifice when you die so you still have Superior Archive to use. I do not believe this was the intended
purpose. Besides, that would then also mean Fire Control can knock out your second "sacrificial" option and render Superior Archive useless at the same time.

=====

Q: Can you announce powerdown if you're not damaged?

iii: In the newrulebook, it states, "A player with a damaged robot may choose to power down. ..." Can you choose to power-down your robot even if it has NO damage?

WotC: Yes, you can choose to power down a robot even if you've taken no damage.

=====

Q: Can you radio control a powered-down robot?

iii: After looking over the rulebook a little bit more, here is what I found. While
the rules state that a powered-down robot does not execute Program cards, it also
states under "Breaking The Rules" on pg 3), "Some courses and Option cards have special rules that override the general rules. In the case of a conflict, follow the rules for that course or card." So, ignoring any possible "course" rules, the"Radio Control"
Option would override the general rule of a robot not executing programs while powered down. So, I believe yes, you CAN "Radio Control" a powered-down robot. Is this correct?

WotC: You cannot radio control a powered down robot, mainly because you are exchanging one set of registers for another. There is nothing to exchange when you've powered down however.

NOTE: While I can think of this as powered-down bots can't move because they have no power, I do not like this explanation about registers being "exchanged" because they are not being exchanged--one bot is moving according to the other bots registers. That is a big difference. So, I am planning on replying about this one also. However, I can see it going either way because on one hand you have the question of how can a bot move if it has no power and, on the other hand, you have the rules stating that Options override the rules of the board.

=====

Q: Do powered-down bots touch flags if they're pushed onto one?

iii: I figured the answer to this one would be yes since the non-mechanical-arm-criteria for touching a flag is that your bot be "on" the flag. Nothing about it having to be powered-up. The same goes for a Repair Site, including a Wrench-Hammer Repair Site. You could feasibly stay powered down on a Wrench-Hammer repair site and keep getting new Option cards as long as they are available and aslong as you are willing to stay powered-down or able to stay on the Wrench-Hammer repair site. Is all of this correct?

WotC: Yes, powered down bots touch flags if they're inadvertently pushed onto one.

=====

Q: If they have mechanical arm do they touch flags they're pushed next to?

iii: I thought this was quite interesting in relation to the last question. I believe
we have already established that Option cards override the general rules. So, can a
Mechanical Arm have a mind of its own? From what we have established so far, I would say yes since the mechanical arm isn't used "instead of" a main laser which would only fire if your bot is powered-up. And, I didn't see anything in the rulebook about other options not working when a bot is powered-down. Is this correct? If not, why not? Frankly, I feel there should be something in the rulebook to prevent this.

WotC: If they do have a mechanical arm they would also be considered to have touched a number they were pushed adjacent to.

=====

Q: What affect do abort switch, radio control, scrambler and conditional program have on locked registers?

iii: I came up with this question earlier, too, while trying to answer some of these
myself. In these cases, I would say they can be used to get around the locked register since the Abort Switch and Conditional Program allow you to swap out the program in the register. So does the Scrambler. And, the Radio Control works off of the other bot's programs instead. Am I correct in all of this?

WotC: Abort switch allows you to change out your program cards (locked or otherwise); radiocontrol causes the robot in question to execute your robot's program, but doesn't change out their original program cards; the scramber and the conditional program both replace a card (locked or otherwise) with a different card (whether you held it aside or drew it from the deck, depending on which you're using of course).

=====


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

Here is also a previous question I had regarding the "Ramming Gear" Option card:

I originally asked:

If you have "Ramming Gear" (which reads, "Whenever your robot pushes or bumps into another robot, that robot receives 1 Damage token."), will another robot still get that one point of damage if THEY bump into you instead of you bumping into them? Does it only count when YOU push them from the FRONT (rather than also in reverse, or sideways if you have "Crab Legs")? What if a conveyor belt is trying to push you off into another robot? Even though you do not move, will that other bot still take damage from you (again, if so, from any direction or only from your front)?

The response was:

The Ramming Gear only applies when you move into another robot, not when they move into you. It doesn't matter which direction you are going as long as you are the one moving in to them. A conveyer movement is not your robot's movement, so it will NOT deal damage from Ramming Gear.



iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

One more, for now. I had also submitted the following question about the "Gyroscopic Stabilizer" Option:

If your robot has the "Gyroscopic Stabilizer" Option and loses it (either due to sacrificing it, or from being targetted by another robot with "Fire Control," etc.), do you treat the rest of the turn as if your bot no longer has the Gyroscopic Stabilizer since you no longer have the option? Or, do you finish out the turn as normal since you already "activated" it?

Here was their answer:

Sorry it took so long for this one, but I wanted to go to the developers to make sure. You get the benefit only if you still you have the Option card. In the case of the Stabilizer for example, even if you activate it on a given turn, once it's gone you will then be affected by gears and conveyors normally that turn.



iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

Since the wording for the "Fire Control" Option changed, it affected the outcome of one of the scenarios that I previuosly presented to customer service. The scenario, updated slightly for the changes in Fire Control, is:

You have Fire Control AND High-Power Laser. You are firing at another bot (Bot "TB" for "Targetted Bot") through another bot which DOES have Ablative Coat (the one you are firing through, or Bot "AC" for Bot with "Ablative Coat"). Can the Ablative Coat, of Bot "AC" that you are trying to fire through, prevent the damage from going on to the other targetted bot (Bot "TB") since it was stopped by the Ablative Coating? Or, does the laser still continue on to the Targetted Bot, Bot "TB." If it does continue on, do you still have the option of locking a register or destroying an Option on the targetted bot, Bot "TB?"

Here was the updated answer I received:

Since the Ablative Coat absorbs the damage, it will not pass through Bot 'AC' to Bot 'TB'.

So, it would stop the laser completely now. :)


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

I also have additional follow-up answers regarding a couple of situations.

First off, with Ablative Coating and the 2 Damage received when your bot reenters the game after dying, here is what I got back:

The robot with ablative coat cannot reduce this damage since it isn't damage dealt, but damage received. You aren't being damaged as a result of the action of some outside force, it is simply the rule that you must come into play with 2 damage tokens (which are received), upon your destruction.

Second, for Radio Control:

With regards to radio control, you cannot program a robot that is off.


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

Ok, as a final follow-up with Customer Service regarding the use of Superior Archive, here is what I got:

While I'm happy to pass your feedback along regarding this card, and I totally understand what you're saying with regard to intent, at this point we have to go by the letter of the rules which indicate that you wouldn't get the benefit of this card if it is indeed the option you lose when your robot is destroyed. In order to benefit, you'd have to have multiple option cards, and choose one of the others to be removed instead.

-----

So, according to their current ruling, you would actually need to have an additional Option card that can be sacrificed when your robot dies in order for you to still have the Superior Archive available to use. Otherwise, if it is your ONLY Option card when your robot dies and you have to sacrifice it (because your robot died, and it was the only Option you had), it would not work. All of this according to a "Chris L.," one of the Customer Service people there that I have been speaking with.

So, I encourage everyone to go to www.wizards.com/customerservice (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice) to submit their feedback on this particular option so that they may officially change it in the future.

You can also contact them via the telephone:
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST


iiiHuman

[mk31bolo]

A note on the two damage from reentering. In the original edition of the game the explanation was that the replacement robot is very hastily constructed and so it isn't up to spec. Basically a slap-dash job to get a robot back in the race as quickly as possible. So it makes sense that this damage is unblockable (except by Supior Archive).

Some of those ruling are very interesting. Thanks forr all this effort.

[iiiHuman]

A note on the two damage from reentering. In the original edition of the game the explanation was that the replacement robot is very hastily constructed and so it isn't up to spec. Basically a slap-dash job to get a robot back in the race as quickly as possible. So it makes sense that this damage is unblockable (except by Supior Archive).

Some of those ruling are very interesting. Thanks forr all this effort.
You're welcome. And, just to be clear, under these rulings Superior Archive will no longer block/prevent the damage if it is the only option you have left when you die because you have to sacrifice an option when your bot is destroyed. So, if that was the only option you had when your bot was destroyed, you have to sacrifice it. When your bot comes back, it no longer has the option and cannot prevent/block the standard 2 damage.


iiiHuman

[mk31bolo]

Yes, I understood that. I was just pointing out that superior archive is the only way to avoid that specific damage. It kinda bites that you have to have another option for it to work. I mean, all you have to do it hit option two with fire control and you've effectively hit both options with one shot. I just can't believe that that was the intended effect.

So if fire controll is in play, and someone else has it, you need at least THREE options to guarrantee that superior archive will work for you. Hmm... On second thought, even that isn't an iron-clad guarantee, is it?

The thing is, unless you're playing a variant that starts you out with an option, they just don't seem to come out very often. Although I think the wrench & hammer spaces will bring them out slightly more often that the old double wrench spaces. It was very hard to pass up repairing two damage points.

I really think that they need to rethink this one. Superior archive isn't much better than a one-hit ablative coat with this ruling.

[iiiHuman]

I was just pointing out that superior archive is the only way to avoid that specific damage. It kinda bites that you have to have another option for it to work. I mean, all you have to do it hit option two with fire control and you've effectively hit both options with one shot. I just can't believe that that was the intended effect.
That's what I discussed with them. It seems the "intended purpose" of the card that it also get treated as a sort of "Get Out Of Jail Free Card" in a way. Except, that it doesn't get used up when you use it if you do happen to have other Options to get rid of in place of this one. If you do get rid of this one, you should still be able to use it for at least that one time. After all, what would it hurt?

So if fire controll is in play, and someone else has it, you need at least THREE options to guarrantee that superior archive will work for you. Hmm... On second thought, even that isn't an iron-clad guarantee, is it?
Not if you get hit twice from a bot with Fire Control.

The thing is, unless you're playing a variant that starts you out with an option, they just don't seem to come out very often. Although I think the wrench & hammer spaces will bring them out slightly more often that the old double wrench spaces. It was very hard to pass up repairing two damage points.
Still, it'd be a small change to allow it to work the way a lot of people believe it works already, and want it to work.

I really think that they need to rethink this one. Superior archive isn't much better than a one-hit ablative coat with this ruling.
As I have stated earlier, I encourage people go to www.wizards.com/customerservice (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice) to e-mail their feedback on this issue in hopes that they change Superior Archive to also work on the turn you sacrifice it when dying.

You can also contact them via the telephone:
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST


iiiHuman

[mk31bolo]

Just as a point of interest, I checked my old, second edition of the game about some of the points above. There were two interesting points:

1) Diagonal squares were never considered adjacent. (I don't have a problem with the new way of determining "adjacent.")

2) Superior Archive copy: Direct quote from the card: "You may withdraw your next archive copy undamaged, even if you discard this option when your robot is destroyed." (This makes much more sense than the above ruling does.)

For those who don't have the second edition, "Archive Copy" is just another name for your next robot.

What I think happened here, is that they were trying to simplify the wording, but got just a little too vague in doing so.

[iiiHuman]

Just as a point of interest, I checked my old, second edition of the game about some of the points above. There were two interesting points:

1) Diagonal squares were never considered adjacent. (I don't have a problem with the new way of determining "adjacent.")
Interesting. I didn't know this. I also like that it now includes diagonally (and orthogonally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal)).

2) Superior Archive copy: Direct quote from the card: "You may withdraw your next archive copy undamaged, even if you discard this option when your robot is destroyed." (This makes much more sense than the above ruling does.)
Thank you for posting this. Whether this was done on purpose or accidentally, this confirms that the functionality DID change from the original. I have been TRYING to confirm this with customer service (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice). All I have received regarding "Superior Archive" so far is that you pretty much have to go by the current wording on the card. However, if this was a mistake (which it appears to be), then it needs to be corrected by issuing Errata for it since the functionality of the new version does not work the way it is supposed to. I have also been TRYING to confirm that this was actually a mistake or intentionally changed.

So, as I keep stating, I hope people go to www.wizards.com/customerservice (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice) to e-mail their feedback on this issue in hopes that they "FIX" Superior Archive to also work on the turn you sacrifice it when dying--just like it used to, and so we are not stuck with the new wording. It seems an obvious mistake. Please contact them to point out the discrepancy so we can get this fixed and get new "official" rules for it to work properly again. Maybe someone else will also have better luck confirming whether or not this change was a mistake or done on purpose.

You can also contact them via the telephone:
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST

It wouldn't be too hard to change or fix. You could merge part of the old wording with the new wording. Something like:

"When reentering play after being destroyed, your robot doesn't receive the normal 2 Damage tokens even if you discarded this Option when your robot was destroyed."

Or, maybe something else like:

"When your robot reenters play after being destroyed, your robot will not receive the normal 2 Damage tokens even if you discard this Option when your robot is destroyed."

What I think happened here, is that they were trying to simplify the wording, but got just a little too vague in doing so.
I agree. I feel the development team, for the new version, concentrated too much on how to make it "simpler" for a larger audience that is not used to "European-Style Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_game)" and ignored the "interactions" of the game itself. It seems to me like they might have never actually played Robo Rally before working on the development team for the new version. So, they weren't familiar with all of the problems that sometimes come up with the interactions.


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

I have also found out some more information about the "Fire Control" Option. It seems that the new "Errata" will not "Officially" become Errata until it is posted on the Customer Service Site (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice). But, I found an apparent problem with the Errata as I was given it. The Errata, as I was given it, is:

"Whenever your robot damages another robot with its main laser, you may choose one of the target robot's registers and put the Damage token directly on it (locking that register) or choose one of that player's Options and destroy it. (The player can't discard an Option to avoid this effect.)"

However, under this new wording, while a robot would now be considered to still have taken "Damage" when it was hit by the main laser from another robot, it seems like the robot will also still have taken damage when an Option is destroyed instead. Before, it was a choice of whether a register got locked OR an Option destroyed. Under this new wording, it seems there is a choice of whether a register gets locked or an Option is destroyed AND 1 point of Damage is still done even if the Option is destroyed instead. Before, the Option was supposed to take the Damage and be destroyed instead of the robot being hit itself and damaged. I have been TRYING to confirm that the Errata does currently read the way that I think it does and whether it needs additional change.

So, I proposed several possible re-wordings but I have not had very much luck in hearing back yet about the possibility of the Errata also needing Errata or making sure that the new Errata will be worded properly before being posted. Here was my favorite possible re-write (among others) that I came up with and suggested to them:

"Whenever your robot damages another robot with its main laser, you may choose one of that player's Options and destroy it instead. Otherwise, you may choose one of the target robot's registers and put the Damage token directly on it, locking that register. The player can't discard an Option to avoid this effect."

I "think" that would fix it once and for all.

If you agree that the Errata should be fixed before it is "Oficially" released, please contact Customer Service (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice) at www.wizards.com/customerservice (http://www.wizards.com/customerservice) and let them know.

You can also contact them via the telephone:
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

Well, I have been contacting Customer Service and here is the outcome.

I had been TRYING, unsuccessfully, to find out if the change in functionality of "Superior Archive" had been done on purpose or by accident. If you do not know what I mean, look at some of my earlier posts about how, under the new wording for Superior Archive, it no longer works if it is the last Option in your hand when you are destroyed and have to sacrifice it. While I was able to submit an idea for Errata to change it back to its original functionality, I was NOT able to determine if the change was done on purpose or by accident neither how hard I tried. This was very disappointing. I have determined it depends on who you talk to in customer service. I won't display a particular name here since I do not want it to look like I am bashing any particular person and risk accidentally violating the board's code of conduct. Plus, I have worked with another individual that went to great lengths to provide excellent service. So, again, it depends on who you get in customer service. It just would have been nice to also find out if the change was accidental or intentional. Maybe someone else could have better luck in finding this out.

However, I was FINALLY (after much work) able to find out that (1) the new Errata for "Fire Control" should be issued as it was previously given to me, and (2) despite how the new Errata reads, if you choose to destroy an Option, the Option is still destroyed "INSTEAD" of also doing damage.

When they reworded "Fire Control" to the following Errata, ...

"Whenever your robot damages another robot with its main laser, you may choose one of the target robot's registers and put the Damage token directly on it (locking that register) or choose one of that player's Options and destroy it. (The player can't discard an Option to avoid this effect.)"

... it looks like, as worded, that you can still cause damage "IN ADDITION" to destroying an Option because it says "whenever your robot damages another robot with its main laser." This is not correct, though. I was able to FINALLY find out that you still choose destroying the Option "INSTEAD" of also doing damage. In fact, here is the answer I finally received back about it from someone in customer service:

"The above text indicates specifically that you either take damage (thus locking a register) or you an option is destroyed... not both. The bot receives only the damage that you take from locking the register."

Now, I disagree that it "specifically" indicates that the bot takes EITHER the damage OR the Option is destroyed. But, at least this statement clears it up finally.

I did also TRY to send feedback that the new Errata should probably be cleaned up a bit (I gave several suggestions as possible re-wording for the card) before the above Errata is "officially" released (to prevent the problems discussed here). I figured if Errata is going to be released then it should be as clear as possible. However, it seems I had no luck with making sure that the Errata should be cleared up. I was originally working with a different customer service on this issue. That first individual was great! He was able to answer my questions clearly and understood what I was asking. He also understood the problems with the card interaction as it was printed and went out of his way to get the Errata I posted. But, then I started working with the other individual that was completely opposite. All I got from this other guy is that the Errata is fine as it is and will not be changed again (even though it hasn't even been "officially" released yet). Tried to do a good deed--save everyone some future work and confusion, and get things done right the first time. Very disappointing. Go figure.

One last side note. It also seems that the part of the new Errata about placing the Damage "token" directly "ON" a register (instead of "above" it) is no longer really needed to "distinguish" that it is locked due to Fire Control rather than normal damage since it is still causing damage under the Errata. So, that is actually something else that should be cleaned up (again, I already tried making suggestions to customer service) to prevent confusion once the Errata is "officially" posted.


iiiHuman

[shadedmj]

I have issue with the Diagonal part of Mechanical Arm.

Bad ascii art time:

+-------+------+ Is the wall between robot and flag?
+ empty | flag | Some say yes, some say no.
+-------+=WALL=+
| robot |empty |
+-------+------+

Another thing:
Dual Processor can now use Move 1's and Backups. Why? Using a Move 1 and Rotate Right with Dual Processor does the same thing as Rotate Right without Dual Processor except the rotate is at different (irrelevant) priority.

[iiiHuman]

I have issue with the Diagonal part of Mechanical Arm.

Bad ascii art time:

+-------+------+ Is the wall between robot and flag?
| empty | flag | Some say yes, some say no.
+-------+=WALL=+
| robot |empty |
+-------+------+
Hey, I don't think that's a bad diagram at all.

Anyhow, I previously asked Customer Service about this exact question myself. What I found out is that, YES, you CAN touch the flag. It is based off of a "Direct Line Of Sight." So, according to your diagram, you WILL be able to touch the flag. In fact, if the wall was one spot to the left, then you would still be able to touch the flag. However, if there is a wall in BOTH spots, then you will NOT be able to touch the flag. This is according to what Customer Service told me.

Another thing:
Dual Processor can now use Move 1's and Backups. Why? Using a Move 1 and Rotate Right with Dual Processor does the same thing as Rotate Right without Dual Processor except the rotate is at different (irrelevant) priority.
I would guess that this is because they were trying to simplify it by allowing a "Move" card in general to be used. Although, it does have potential in the future if a Move 1 turns into an additional movement--like Fourth Gear currently allows you to move an extra square if you Move 3. In fact, I have a better example. Using a Back Up with Dual Processor can work if you also have Reverse Gear. I had previously asked Customer Service the question as to whether you can use Dual Processor AND Reverse Gear with a Back Up in the Register you are using the Dual Processor. He basically said:

"Yes, you could use reverse gear and dual processor together. You could move back a single square and then turn using the rotate card." [corrected for typos, etc]

So, it does have its potential the way it is worded in this version.


iiiHuman

[shadedmj]

"Hey, I don't think that's a bad diagram at all."
It took half an hour to set up in this editor. :)

Good call on the Reverse Gear/Dual Processor combo.

I now see the options no longer have a "Phase Programmed" or "Turn Programmed" tag on them. I always found that helpful.

[puggimer]

They dropped the two 'turn programmed' options - shield and turrent.

[shadedmj]

"They dropped the two 'turn programmed' options - shield and turrent."

AND THEY KEPT the previously labeled 'Turn Programmed' cards Flywheel and GyroStabilizer. Sigh...... I'm thinking of larger scope here.

I'm remembering the Armed & Dangerous set where there were statements like "Only one phase-programmed gadget option can be used per single phase", which kept people from dropping mines and goo simultaneously.

I liked "Turn Programmed" at the top of a card, becuase by seeing that you knew you had to decide if it was on or off before the start of the first phase.

Granted that sometimes that tag was dubious, but it almost always helped define the function of the card. Now its read, many interpretations, and debated.

[Y2UAsk]

AND THEY KEPT the previously labeled 'Turn Programmed' cards Flywheel and GyroStabilizer.

The difference being that the dropped cards were directional -- you had to rotate the card in front of you to indicate which side of the robot the shield or turret was covering. Flywheel and Gyroscopic Stabilizer aren't directional. So I'd say the issue here wasn't turn programming per se, it was people forgetting to position the card correctly, positioning the card indistinctly, or the limited usefulness of the cards because you'd always position them so they had no effect (you'd shield the right and then get lasered from the left).

Steve

[shadedmj]

Y2UAsk: With respect, was I asking for the difference??
I was referencing Puggimer's one-line statement that two option cards were removed, which sounded much like he thought those were the only cards formerly labeled 'turn programmed'.

I somewhat repeat my previous statements. I liked the label 'turn programmed' because it queued up the notion that you had to program them for the turn. This is still true for Flywheel and Gyroscopic Stabilizer, in that you have to program the card for Flywheel and .declare whether Gyro is on or off.

[puggimer]

You are correct - those were just the two obvious ones. The main difference is that those required you to decide which side they were active on.

[phill_nz]

seems pretty obvious that none of the developers or customer service XXX have ever played the game or read the original rules properly ....go hasbro...

there are so many mistakes / untruths in the latest article (5) it just defies belief

[shadedmj]

Here's a non-rant question that iiiHuman has probably asked by I haven't seen here yet.....

For Crab Legs and Dual Processor: From the Armed & Dangerous set, there was talk about primary and secondary registers that is not shown in this set. Which card (rotate or movement) gets locked out for normal damage or locked for fire control???

What options can be used while powered down? Power-Down Shield obviously, but what about Ablative Coat, Ramming Gear, Gyroscopic Stabilizer, and Mechanical Arm?

How about using Conditional Program or Abort Switch after being hit with Radio Control or Scrambler? (This one was answered by the old Wizards FAQ on the original game)

In the old game, the "movement effect" of being hit by Tractor/Pressor Beam and Mini-Howitzer happened after the firing is complete, to avoid being Tractored into some other robot's laser beam. This is not discussed in the new game. Is it the same way now??

Circuit Breaker has "your robot will begin the next turn powered down". The old FAQ said it should be restated as "your robot may begin...." as to not make it mandatory. Is this still the case?

[iiiHuman]

Ok, I think I can answer at least some, or at least part of some, of these based on previous communication I have had with customer service.

For Crab Legs and Dual Processor: From the Armed & Dangerous set, there was talk about primary and secondary registers that is not shown in this set. Which card (rotate or movement) gets locked out for normal damage or locked for fire control???
The "register" gets locked, not a particular card in a register. But, this does seem like it needs checking to make sure whether or not BOTH cards STAY in the locked register. They should, I believe.

What options can be used while powered down? Power-Down Shield obviously, but what about Ablative Coat, Ramming Gear, Gyroscopic Stabilizer, and Mechanical Arm?
From those you listed other than Power-Down Shield, Ablative Coat just absorbs the next three damage, so it'd work while powered down.

As for Ramming Gear, here is what customer service told me:

"The Ramming Gear only applies when you move into another robot, not when they move into you. It doesn't matter which direction you are going as long as you are the one moving in to them. A conveyer movement is not your robot's movement, so it will NOT deal damage from Ramming Gear."

So, being pushed into another robot would also not cause damage to that other robot since it was not under your own power. I might double-check on this. Am I the only one trying to deal with (er, contact) customer service on these issues?

Gyroscopic Stabilizer while powered-down? Maybe needs checking. You'd have to announce it that turn before register cards are revealed, though. That is, if it works while powered-down.

As for Mechanical Arm, here is what customer service told me when I asked if a powered-down robot can still used the Mechanical Arm to touch an adjacent square if it is pushed close enough by another robot:

"If they do have a mechanical arm they would also be considered to have touched a number they were pushed adjacent to."

That was in response for touching a flag with Mechanical Arm while powered-down. However, I also found out from customer service that you still have to be "ON" a Repair Site (either powered-up or powered-down) to receive repairs and/or upgrades.

How about using Conditional Program or Abort Switch after being hit with Radio Control or Scrambler? (This one was answered by the old Wizards FAQ on the original game)
I posted previously about this one also.

Customer service had this to say:

"Abort switch allows you to change out your program cards (locked or otherwise); radio control causes the robot in question to execute your robot's program, but doesn't change out their original program cards; the scramber and the conditional program both replace a card (locked or otherwise) with a different card (whether you held it aside or drew it from the deck, depending on which you're using of course)."

NOTE: Customer service also told me during a later follow-up that you can only replace ONE of the cards in a register that has two due to something like Crab-Legs or Dual Processor. I figured I better repost this at the same time.

In the old game, the "movement effect" of being hit by Tractor/Pressor Beam and Mini-Howitzer happened after the firing is complete, to avoid being Tractored into some other robot's laser beam. This is not discussed in the new game. Is it the same way now??

Since all robots fire their lasers at the same time and since the way Pressor Beam, Tractor Beam, and Mini Howitzer are currently worded about being used instead of when you would fire your robot's laser, the robot being pushed or pulled into another robot's laser would NOT receive damage from that other robot's laser.

The rules seem unclear about whether or not "Board" Lasers fire before, or at the same time, as "Robot" Lasers. It just states that "Board" Lasers fire after all other board elements have moved. However, this doesn't really cause any conflicts with Pressor Beam, Tractor Beam, and Mini Howitzer firing then either. If they fire at the same time, then they still don't cause damage because it all happens at the same time. If the "Board" Lasers fire first, then they definitely go off before the Pressor Beam, Tractor Beam, Mini Howitzer, and other such "laser-replacement" options. However, this might be worth checking into also.

Circuit Breaker has "your robot will begin the next turn powered down". The old FAQ said it should be restated as "your robot may begin...." as to not make it mandatory. Is this still the case?
Nope. At least, not from comments that customer service has told me in other situations. Basically, customer service told me that you have to go by "... the letter of the rules ..." meaning that you would have to go by the new wording on the Option unless Errata gets posted eventually for something. Customer service said this in response to my questions about Superior Archive. The way Superior Archive is worded now, if you sacrifice it as your last option when dying, you no longer get the benefits of not returning without damage if the Superior Archive was your only Option left when you died.

I'll try to get some more of these questions answered. I'd like to know for sure too.


iiiHuman

[Moderator Kayn]

seems pretty obvious that none of the developers or customer service XXX have ever played the game or read the original rules properly ....go hasbro...



Phill.. I'm not trying to be mean here...you are new to these boards it seems, perhaps you are used to posting in a place where baiting and/or rudeness is acceptable. I'll ask that as you are posting your opinions, keep it civil, stay away from uncalled for nastyness.

Thanks,
Mod Kayn

[iiiHuman]

Hey, I got answers back from customer service regarding a couple more questions.

In response to the situation of a register being locked with two cards in that register (due to something like Crab Legs or Dual Processor), customer service said BOTH of the cards in that register will STAY locked in that register as opposed to only one or the other.

Now that I have received an answer to this question, I have also asked what happens if the Option (Crab Legs or Dual Processor) gets destroyed while both cards are locked in that register. I'll let everyone know what I hear back.

As for whether or not "Board Lasers" fire before, or at the same time as, "Robot Lasers," customer service said that "ALL Lasers" fire at the SAME TIME and, because of this, a robot will NOT take additional damage if pushed or pulled into a laser from something like a Pressor Beam, Tractor Beam, and/or Mini Howitzer, which would all fire at the time your laser would normally fire.

Also, I had a question regarding the "official" spelling of RoboRally since I have seen it spelled two different ways in different places (as either one word or two words). This is what I heard back from a Steve Winter:

"In its current form, RoboRally is one word with two capital Rs."


iiiHuman

[phill_nz]

Phill.. I'm not trying to be mean here...you are new to these boards it seems, perhaps you are used to posting in a place where baiting and/or rudeness is acceptable. I'll ask that as you are posting your opinions, keep it civil, stay away from uncalled for nastyness.

Thanks,
Mod Kayn


sorry ..thought that xxx was totally non specific

if you would like to know the reson just ask ..i have it all at another boardsite ...the observations are all "as it is" if you require an apologetic pc version thats fine ..also just ask ... the points are important and accurate and do effect the creds of the developers

they go from small stupidities right up to major 'screw ups'

perhaps i should start another thread with them as the subject

[shadedmj]

As for whether or not "Board Lasers" fire before, or at the same time as, "Robot Lasers," customer service said that "ALL Lasers" fire at the SAME TIME and, because of this, a robot will NOT take additional damage if pushed or pulled into a laser from something like a Pressor Beam, Tractor Beam, and/or Mini Howitzer, which would all fire at the time your laser would normally fire.
iiiHuman

I may not have made clear statements before. I was asking if the 'movement effect' (movement of robot after being hit by tractor beam) happened just after laser/weapon fire. If the movement were to happen at the same time, it causes confusion about moving into fire. Your/their statement seem to reflect that, which provides consistency with the old game and avoids problems.

Above, your message has "ALL Lasers". We had Tractor/Repulsor (non-laser energy) and Mini-Howitzer (projectile) weapon firing at the same time as robot lasers just for the sake of consistency. Otherwise there has to be 3 or 4 more Timing Summary entries to split the firing of these weapons. I hope that is still the case.

[iiiHuman]

Answers as they come in. I decided to get a little bit of extra clarification about what happens when your robot is moved if you also have Ramming Gear. Previously established, your robot had to really be moving under its own power as being pushed by a Conveyor Belt or Pusher, etc, would not cause the Ramming Gear on your robot to cause damage to another robot. Also, another robot pushing into your robot would also not cause damage to that other robot if you have Ramming Gear. However, I wanted to double-check to make sure that it was not movement under any "robot power" in general. In other words, if your robot with Ramming Gear gets pushed into a third robot from another robot rather than by a board element like a Conveyor Belt or a Pusher, etc. Here is what I heard back from Trevor K.:

"Being pushed into another robot by another robot or an ability that robot has will not deal any damage from Ramming Gear. Again, the robot has to be moving of it's own volition, through it's own movement card in order to deal any damage with ramming gear."

So, again/still, for Ramming Gear to work the movement has to be done under the power of the robot with the Ramming Gear itself.


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

I may not have made clear statements before. I was asking if the 'movement effect' (movement of robot after being hit by tractor beam) happened just after laser/weapon fire. If the movement were to happen at the same time, it causes confusion about moving into fire. Your/their statement seem to reflect that, which provides consistency with the old game and avoids problems. Above, your message has "ALL Lasers". We had Tractor/Repulsor (non-laser energy) and Mini-Howitzer (projectile) weapon firing at the same time as robot lasers just for the sake of consistency. Otherwise there has to be 3 or 4 more Timing Summary entries to split the firing of these weapons. I hope that is still the case.
Ah. Well, the Tractor Beam movement happens exactly when the Tractor Beam hits. I am not sure if you have seen the new wording on the Option cards for these, but the "alternative" weapons like the Pressor and Tractor Beams and Mini Howitzer (non-laser energy and projectile weapons) all happen at the same time that your laser would normally fire. So, the timing is the same as for lasers and is immediate. So, when the laser would fire, one of the alternative weapons would fire instead. When it hits, it immediately moves the other robot if applicable. Since all lasers (as well as alternative weapons) fire at the same time, you cannot be moved into additional fire.


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

All right, I heard back from customer service about when which options can be used powered-up and powered-down. I thought Trevor K. did a really excellent job when answering this. Here are his comments:

"A robot can use an option card whenever it's ability applies. If it requires firing your laser, then of course you can't use it while powered down. If it requires moving, then again, you can't use it while powered down. If it is an ability that requires no action on your part, such as with the Ablative Coating and Mechanical Arm, then it will still function while powered down. You don't receive program cards while powered down, so Extra Memory would do you no good while powered down either. Anything that requires moving or firing cannot be used while powered down."

Man, if only the rulebook was worded more along these lines. :)


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

I've been working on finding out some specific information, for the last couple of weeks through customer service, regarding what happens if you have a register with two Program cards in it (due to something like Crab Legs and/or Dual Processor) and then the register becomes locked.

I finally received a complete set of answers and here is what I have found out:

<1> If a register with two Program cards in it (due to Option cards like Crab Legs and Dual Processor) becomes locked and you still have the Option card for that register, both Program cards stay locked in that register.

<2> If you lose the Option card for the locked register BEFORE your robot executes that locked register (the one with two Program cards in it), you discard the Rotate card or the U-Turn card from that locked register leaving just the Movement card in that locked register.

<3> If you lose the Option card for the locked register AFTER your robot executes that locked register (the one with the two Program cards in it), you still discard the Rotate card or the U-Turn card from that locked register leaving just the Movement card in that locked register for future executions of that particular register.

It is also important to note, if you do not have enough Program cards available for use with either Crab Legs or Dual Processor, you cannot leave a register blank in order to use one of those particular Option cards. For those particular Option cards to work, you will need additional cards beyond those for the first five registers. Which, you normally won't have once you have begun locking registers in a normal fashion.


iiiHuman

[iiiHuman]

The following is a copy of a post I made in response to someone's question in another thread. However, since their question dealt with an Option, I thought it might be a good idea to include it here in order to try and keep the Option questions together to some degree.
==========================================

Ok, the instantaenous power-down from the Circuit Breaker Option is mandatory. It is not optional. The new version currently reads as follows:


CIRCUIT BREAKER:
If you have 3 or more Damage tokens on your Program Sheet at the end of your turn, your robot will begin the next turn powered down.


So, once again, it is mandatory and not optional.

However, one of the nice things about the Circuit Breaker Option is that you do not have to execute another turn's worth of program cards before you can be fully powered down. As stated previously by others, normally you would have to program your next turn (along with any locked registers you may have) and announce that you are powering down (before those programs are executed) so that you will be fully powered down at the beginning of the next turn (after you execute the current turn's program chips, including those that are locked). The Circuit Breaker Option allows you to automatically and instantly be fully powered down on the next turn without having to complete another turn's worth of program cards in the process of powering down. Granted, as Docfrost stated, this might be a problem depending on where you will be powered down. However, also like Docfrost stated, you can always choose to discard the option to prevent a point of damage so that you do not have to be automatically and instantly powered down on the next turn.

Also, one other nice benefit of not having to wait a full turn in the process of powering down is that you do not have to worry about how much damage you already have. Let's say you have seven damage. Without the Circuit Breaker, you will not only have to execute several locked registers before being fully powered down (assuming you annouce powering down at the beginning of the next turn), you run the risk of easily getting three more damage and being destroyed. With the Circuit Breaker, you get to clear all of the damage right away without having to wait a turn. Sure, you may also take damage while powered-down, but you have that possibility in either situation (whether you power down immediately, or after having to execute one more turn).

There is also one more thing to remember. As long as your play group accepts it, you can always make a "house rule" that the Circuit Breaker is "optional." However, this might be kind of hard to explain. You could, however, say that all of the robots also have a sort of Circuit Breaker "override" function built-in. But, again, this would be a "house rule" and your group would have to agree on it.


The following might also be helpful:

TURN PROCEDURE FOR ROBORALLY:

Each Turn:
* Deal Program Cards.
* Program Registers.
- Announce usage of Options that need to be tied to a certain phase.
- If using Timer, second-to-last player done programming starts it.
* Announce any power-downs for next turn.
* Complete each register phase:
- Reveal Program Cards.
- Robots move based on priority.
- Board elements move:
1. Express conveyor-belts move 1 space.
2. Express conveyor-belts and normal conveyor-belts move 1 space.
3. Pushers push if active.
4. Gears rotate 90 degrees in the direction of arrows.
- Board lasers and Robot lasers fire.
- Robots "touch" flags and repair sites:
1. Archive positions get updated.
2. Flags are tagged.
* Cleanup:
- Robots can get repairs and upgrades.
- Wipe the registers that are not locked.


Keep in mind that repairs and upgrades do not happen until after all of the movement phases, at the end of the turn during the Cleanup section. However, you can update your archive position and tag flags at the end of any movement phase.


While I'm here, I should probably also include a useful little note I received from Customer Service on when Options can be used:

GENERAL RULES ON OPTION USAGE:
A robot can use an option card whenever it's ability applies. If it requires firing your laser, then of course you can't use it while powered down. If it requires moving, then again, you can't use it while powered down. If it is an ability that requires no action on your part, such as with the Ablative Coating and Mechanical Arm, then it will still function while powered down. You don't receive program cards while powered down, so Extra Memory would do you no good while powered down either. Anything that requires moving or firing cannot be used while powered down.



iiiHuman

[shadedmj]

their "mandatory" rule is just wrong.

Getting pushed into a laser beam and getting 3 damage would force a shutdown.
Guess what, you get 5 damage from being in the beam the whole turn. Your robot will never be ON again.

I'm not picking on you 3I. I just can't believe their ruling is still that it is mandatory.

Sigh.... I'll go back under my rock now.

[puggimer]

[QUOTE=shadedmj]their "mandatory" rule is just wrong.

Getting pushed into a laser beam and getting 3 damage would force a shutdown.
Guess what, you get 5 damage from being in the beam the whole turn. Your robot will never be ON again.
[\QUOTE]

In which case you take one point to destroy the circuit breaker.

Actually the best use I've ever found for this is to absorb a point of damage period. This is one option (for me) that has a bit target painted on it for the other lasers.

[iiiHuman]

their "mandatory" rule is just wrong.

Getting pushed into a laser beam and getting 3 damage would force a shutdown.
Guess what, you get 5 damage from being in the beam the whole turn. Your robot will never be ON again.

I'm not picking on you 3I. I just can't believe their ruling is still that it is mandatory.


I know you're not picking on me. But, I just want to be clear here on something. I didn't get an actual "ruling" on Circuit Breaker from customer service because you can easily tell from the wording, on the Circuit Breaker Option card itself, that its functionality is mandatory. That is why I listed the actual wording from the Option card as Circuit Breaker currently reads. Having contacted customer service multiple times about Option cards, I am 100% positive from the wording on the Circuit Breaker Option card that its ability is mandatory. That said, though as puggimer also stated, you can sacrifice the Option card (as you can do with any Option card) to prevent a point of damage and prevent yourself from having to automatically reboot at the end of the turn. Also, as I stated before, you can always have a "house rule" to play it as if you have a manual override for it. And, it does also make a sacrificial tool for Superior Archive since that option now (under Superior Archive's new wording) only works if you have a second option to sacrifice when your robot is destroyed (unlike the previous version that worked even if it was your only option left when your bot was destroyed). That does happen to be a "ruling" that I received directly from customer service. In fact, the Circuit Breaker could also work to your benefit (from the immediate shut down) if you know that your bot will be in the line-of-sight of another bot planning to use Radio Control on you; If your bot is powered-down, it can't be radio-controlled (that is another "ruling" I got directly from customer service).


iiiHuman

[extremist]

The thing is, unless you're playing a variant that starts you out with an option, they just don't seem to come out very often. Although I think the wrench & hammer spaces will bring them out slightly more often that the old double wrench spaces. It was very hard to pass up repairing two damage points.

I have much to say in this thread (this has seemed to become the general 'option card' discussions thread, which is why I didn't start a new one), but I don't really know how to go about it, so I decided to respond little-by-little in seperate posts. Hopefully this approach will make it easier to follow and respond to.

At first I was very impressed with the structure of the rules, but was sorely disappointed when the option cards started hitting the tables. It just seemed as if their integration into the game weren't designed properly at all. The rulebook that comes with the game hardly covers option cards at all, which leads me to my comment:

A question to your question: According to the rules, robots touch checkpoints (i.e. flags and repair sites) at the end of every register phase. This means that if you move onto a hammer/wrench square you repair one and get an Option Card. If you then rotate on that same square you should draw another card at the end of the phase (provided you're not pushed off). Is this reasoning right?

If the above is true, Option Cards could come out en masse in some games (as it had in one I played last night). So much so that we debated the implementation of various house rules around this dynamic and Option Cards in general for most of the evening (after the game of course :-))

Thoughts?

[extremist]

A question to your question: According to the rules, robots touch checkpoints (i.e. flags and repair sites) at the end of every register phase. This means that if you move onto a hammer/wrench square you repair one and get an Option Card. If you then rotate on that same square you should draw another card at the end of the phase (provided you're not pushed off). Is this reasoning right?

If the above is true, Option Cards could come out en masse in some games (as it had in one I played last night). So much so that we debated the implementation of various house rules around this dynamic and Option Cards in general for most of the evening (after the game of course :-))


Forgive my idiocy. We never read the factory floor guides. Go figure. I just read that repairs and Options can only be picked up at End of Turn. This however, just cements the point I made about the rules skimping on the explanation of Options, Option usage and touching checkpoints.

[extremist]

I was going to post general rantings regarding Mechanical Arm and Circuit Breaker, but the more I read the more I realised that Mechanical Arm wasn't nearly as broken as I thought it was (since it only lets you grab flags and place archive markers, really).

However, regarding the "letter of the rules:" The rules (and floor guide) say that Robots must be ON a flag or repair site at end of phase/end of turn in order to place an archive marker and have the flag count towards race victor. Sigh, I'm nitpicking, I suppose the Customer Service guys have cleared up the ambiguity so there's no reason to moan about the poor coverage of checkpoint touching in the rules.

I tend to agree with the people that have said that Superior Archive seems neutered if you have to sacrifice another Option Card for it to have any effect. I also tend to agree with the guys that think it sucks that Circuit Breaker is more often than not just good for a 1 damage shield. (Just so I've stated my opinion).

Also, one other nice benefit of not having to wait a full turn in the process of powering down is that you do not have to worry about how much damage you already have. Let's say you have seven damage. Without the Circuit Breaker, you will not only have to execute several locked registers before being fully powered down (assuming you annouce powering down at the beginning of the next turn), you run the risk of easily getting three more damage and being destroyed. With the Circuit Breaker, you get to clear all of the damage right away without having to wait a turn. Sure, you may also take damage while powered-down, but you have that possibility in either situation (whether you power down immediately, or after having to execute one more turn).

The thing is, this makes the usefulness of Circuit Breaker dependent on when you draw it. Intuitively (i.e. I've done no calculations to support this statement just yet), the chances of getting a Circuit Breaker when you're robot is on 7 points of damage is very low. If you draw it before you've acrued, say, 5 damage tokens, it's not nearly as useful. Then, on top of it all, you pick it up AFTER you repair a damage, so if you had 5 points of damage, you aim for the repair post, manage to scrape your poor battered robot there, heal the 1 damage you wanted to clear your register, and then you're forced to shut down because of a card that was SUPPOSED to benefit you (no other option card FORCES you to do something potentially bad for you).

Fire control, I feel needs more work too. I think the idea of treating it as damage is great (so the Ablative Coat option may be used to negate it), but I do not think locking the register should cause the robot's controller to receive less cards the following round (i.e. a robot using the Fire Control option should not be able to do a point of damage AND decide which register to lock).

(NOTE THAT THE NEXT PARAGRAPH DEALS WITH A POSSIBLE HOUSE RULE AND NOT THE ACTUAL RULE -- unless it's errata'd again, of course)

This, of course, brings up a new scenario: A robot which has had one or more registers locked due to Fire Control may be dealt enough damage to lock the already locked registers, in which case I propose nothing additional happens. The register remains locked and the robot's controller receives a smaller hand the next turn.

As for the Ablative Coat, HP Laser & Fire Control interaction: I realise that once again, the ambiguity has been cleared up, but by "the letter", HP Laser States: "High-Power Laser: Your robot's main laser can shoot through one wall or robot to get to a target robot. If you shoot through a robot, that robot also receives full damage. You may use this Option with Fire Control and/or Double-Barrel Laser."

and

"Ablative Coat: ...absorbs the next 3 damage your robot receives."

So using the knowledge base and rules of resolution we're given, the laser will travel through the robot with the Coating, though the robot with the Coating will not receive damage. I know it doesn't make logical/real-world sense, but in terms of the rules, that's what I feel would happen. Customer services has (with their disambiguation), introduced an exception to the rule which is covered nowhere but on this website.

I like it not.

[puggimer]

The problem with FC locking a register without doing damage is there is then no way to unlock the register - if there isn't damage then you can't heal it. That would make FC much more damaging - locking a register for the rest of the game.

Yes, FC is nasty. So be prepared to be a target when you have it.

[extremist]

The problem with FC locking a register without doing damage is there is then no way to unlock the register - if there isn't damage then you can't heal it. That would make FC much more damaging - locking a register for the rest of the game.

Yes, FC is nasty. So be prepared to be a target when you have it.

There are many ways to word Fire Control so that it does not decrease your hand size, but locks a register and ensures that the register is salvageable:

"... the damage dealt by FC does not count towards determining hand size."

"... the damage token placed on the register may by removed like normal damage (i.e. Power Down or Wrench squares)."

or reword it completely:

"Instead of dealing damage with a laser shot, you may instead lock a register of the target robot. That register may be unlocked as if it were locked by normal damage."

This way, it's completely unambiguous in the scenario where you have two robots in your sights and are equipped with HP & DB Laser & Fire Control ():

HP Laser through a robot, and FC the furtherrobot while you use the additional laser to deal 1 damage to the robot your first laser travelled through,
FC the robot directly in front of you and deal 1 damage to both robots by shooting through the closer with HP Laser,
FC the further robot and deal 1 point of damage to both robots by using HP laser without FC,
FC both robots,
FC one robot twice,
Deal 1 damage to the further robot by FC-ing through the first, then shoot the closer robot directly for a total of 2 damage to the closer robot,
Deal 2 damage to each robot by HP-ing through the closer one twice.
Of course, option 1 and 6 are completely sub-optimal, but quite valid ways of using the 3-card combination iff fire control were differently worded.

Now there's no other course of action but to FC the further robot twice because this lets you deal 2 damage and lock 2 registers on BOTH robots (HP Laser reads: "High-Power Laser: Your robot's main laser can shoot through one wall or robot to get to a target robot. If you shoot through a robot, that robot also receives full damage. You may use this Option with Fire Control and/or Double-Barrel Laser.")

[iiiHuman]

Extremist,

I need some clarification from you. It seems that you want to treat the locked register from Fire Control different from any other time you would lock a register. In other words, if a register were to be locked normally (from being shot from a laser, etc) you would prefer that a player would still have his or her hand-size reduced by one. But, if a register gets locked specifically by the Fire Control option, you would prefer that a player would still get the same amount of program cards dealt to him or her as if that register was not locked, even though any program card in that locked register would still be locked and that player would still be able to unlock the register as if he or she were removing a point of damage. Is this correct?

If this is correct, why do you feel that locking a register from Fire Control should be treated differently from locking a register using any other method? Also, don't you feel this would be more confusing?


iiiHuman

[puggimer]

The idea of locking a register without doing damage, to me at least, is much more complicated than simply specifing that FC damages the register. Especially with the new player cards where you track damage on the card, FC simply allows you to put the damage token where you wish, instead of in the next 'open' position.

Locking a register without doing damage would mean you would have to keep track of these separaely from those locked by normal damage - and just adds a layer of complexity that really isn't needed.

So I still think that the best thing to do with FC is to kill the robot who has it!

[kjadams]

In the original RoboRally, Robots could not touch check points nor take advantage of Wrench sites while powered down. There seems to be no exclusion from this in the new Robo Rally, and the above thread comments would indicate that indeed the rules have changed. Was this an intentional improvement of the game, or an oversight? Wife claims oversight, and wants to stick with old rules. I claim thoughtful improvement and not just dumbing down the game for the masses. Opinions?

[PhilFleischmann]

Yes, this was a change. And IMO, no, it was definitely *NOT* an improvement. I wouldn't call it an oversight, rather a deliberate dumbing-down and a foolish decision. How exciting can a game be when you can cross the finish line in your sleep? Combined with the new Uber-powerful Mechanical Arm, just power down on a conveyor belt that takes you past the next flag.

Less strategy, less planning, less thinking = worse game.