No love for Dragoncon-why?

[King_George]

I just checked the gaming schedule for Dragoncon this weekend, NO Axis & Allies or Star Wars Minis tournaments! I also checked the list for the exhibition hall and no Wizards of the Coast! What is up with this?
WizKids is there. Games Workshop is there. But no WotC?

How can WotC miss the largest show in the Southeast? You have just released SW Universe and are about to release AAM, it seems like the right time to be out promoting these games.

[Stojakovic]

I was wondering the same thing I notice a bunch of copanies that I never heard of but but no WotC. Any idea why?

[Engineer]

WK should not attend DragonCon either (mistake on their part).

If WOTC thought they could make money, they would attend.

[Vulturedoodle]

WK should not attend DragonCon either (mistake on their part).

If WOTC thought they could make money, they would attend.
Is there something about Dragoncon we should know?

Regards,
Steve F., who's thinking about going down on Saturday

[Engineer]

It is a great local convention. With in driving distance of lots of folks who don't get to Origins or Gencon. It is not a Origins or Gencon (but they try really hard).

If I lived 2 or 3 hours away, I would drive down for a day.

[King_George]

It is a great local convention. With in driving distance of lots of folks who don't get to Origins or Gencon. It is not a Origins or Gencon (but they try really hard).

If I lived 2 or 3 hours away, I would drive down for a day.

He has obviously never been.

50,000 people over 4 days = the combined totals of Origins or Gencon. I would say that is more than a local convention.

[Moderator Sinister]

Well I do have to say that Wizards went ALL out for A&A minis at gencon. I'll post some pics later. This may have something to do with it. The numbers I have for dragon con aren't anywhere near 50,000. 20,000 is what is reported on their site. 20,000 with far far more less gaming events than gen con. hundreds less gaming events.

That's not to put down dragoncon at all but since wizards used to own gencon I'm guessing they stress that more.

[Anarch]

He has obviously never been.

50,000 people over 4 days = the combined totals of Origins or Gencon. I would say that is more than a local convention.
I agree... it is in the top 5 largest Game/Sci fi/comic conventions in the US. Wiz kids pushed their games year before last and had a HUGE turnout. Dont guess wotc thinks that they need any new customers.

[King_George]

I have been to Gen-Con & Origins and both are fine shows. My point was why pass up an opportunity to reach more players? It would have to be far less money to have a booth than the full page color ads that WotC have purchased in the various WWII history magazines that are predominantly read by people who are not likely to be gamers.

I’m not wanting to start a mines better than yours,
but just for clarity, from the Dragoncon website (http://www.dragoncon.org/history.htm) next line to the bottom: “Dragon*Con 2001's total is approximately 43,000” that was 4 years ago. The 20,000+ you see on the chart is so both the host hotels and the city don’t flip out about having 50,000 people in 2 hotels downtown. Gen-Con has told the city of Indianapolis the attendance was 15,000 to 18,000.

Nuff' said.

[Sinister]

That's fine. Like I said I'm not trying to bash dragon con, I would go if I could. The 43,000 is if they count the 4 day pass 4 times.

Gen Con:

82,121 if they count the 4 day pass 4 times

Unique Attendance: 25,106

What does this tell us? Well that during the convention the amount of people in the convention per day was roughly though not quite double dragon con. Dragon Con has a very close number of total attendees but a low % stay the whole con. My guess is, as someone mentioned it, it's a local con. Gen Con on the other hand has many more people making the investment to stay all 4 days. Gen Con has a VERY HIGH % of people staying all four days. Something I never realized. Of course that's still double the amount of transactions going on in the exhibit hall in terms of buisness. Also the sheer amount of events keep people around at gen con.

Gen Con also had:
1,132 Boardgame Events
468 CG Events
82 historical Miniature Events
92 Larps
695 Miniature Events (not counting historical)
2,213 RPG Events
516 Collectible Card Events

DragonCon has less than 400 events listed on their catalog.
That's 13 times less events than gen con.

My thoughts on this is that gen con was just two weeks ago. They had a massive display with a half a bombed out catherdral and demos being done on jeeps with mock up soldiers. Many of the staff from wizards was in attendence. Gen Con was once owned by wizards.

The release of A&AM is this month. Between Gen Con and Dragon Con that would have pulled alot of people out of the office for almost a month when you consider travel time and the time it takes to set things up. Also the whole volunteer core is Huge. Just in the online community we had about 12 vounteers and that was just to sign people up to wonderful boards like this one. The prizes given out were fanatastic, many people walked away with several books.

So my personal opinion is maybe it wasn't so much ignoring of dragoncon as it is it's just simply to close to gen con when you figure the massive amounts of people, time, effort, prizes, and cost that goes into a con.

Finally dragon con caters to a large portion of non gamers. It's a sci fi/ fantasy convention. In fact they bill it as that. This means not everyone attending is a gamer. Where as gen con is billed as "the best 4 days in gaming" which means most people going are going to game.


What's really werid is games workshop who haven't made an appearence at gen con for the last 3 years, at least in the exhibt hall are going to dragon con.

[King_George]

Wow, how unfair Sinsiter.
Neither you nor the other critics have ever been to Dragoncon.

You make Dragoncon sound like a HMGS chapter meeting in the Howard Johnson’s basement. It’s not.

I don’t know how many gaming events there are, but really how many different events can you participate in? Dragoncon gaming starts Friday morning and ends Monday afternoon-nonstop 24hours a day. No not every attendee is a gamer, but neither are the all the attendees at Gen Con.

The point is promotion of a new game, not the advantages and disadvantages of conventions. Suffice to say it is a missed opportunity for WotC.

[Moderator Sinister]

King,

I don't mean to do that at all. Clearly Dragon Con is a HUGE event. Nor am I making suggestions that it should be ignored. I WISH I could go! Nor would I EVER make light of a con. It takes tons of resources and energy. Dragon con from the people I know that have gone is always described as a good con!

My point was rather to list some points in defence of the attendence of Gen Con which is isn't a smaller con.

Any Missed con is a missed oppertunity IMO.

[TheFoeHammer]

I think the bottom line is that any company's resources are limited and they have to make choices. I would assume WOTC evaluated the traffic and sales they had at the various cons and made their decision based on that.

I wished I lived closer to DragonCon, I have friends down South who are not gamers who visit it every year now. Since my interests cross into a lot of areas it would be a lot of fun for me and my family.

But I can also clearly see that WOTC would look at Origins and Gencon as a bigger gaming centered event. Probably when D&D and Star Wars were a new item DragonCon was more important to them.

Hope it ends up being a great Con anyway. Enjoy!

[The Wicker Man]

I live close to atlanta, but I must confess dragon con has never apealed to me. There is a persistent story about the owner's legal troubles that makes me less than entusiastic to give him any money.

[Platypus]

It is also my understanding that dragon con lacks pricing guidelines like other cons. From whay I understand, GenCon and Origins have rules for dealer pricing. Third party dealers are not allowed to sell below retail so that publishers can sell their products at full MSRP (or con specials as they see fit). Dragon Con features a HUGE flea market type room in the basement where there are many great deals to be had. Wizards and others don't see the point to sitting up in the exhibit hall, selling product when boosters are $5 cheaper downstairs. I could be wrong but that's what i've heard.

Dragon Con is an absolute blast. The gaming scene is huge but not as well organized as other cons. The real point though is the partying and costumes and such though (for me anyway).

Platypus

[Stojakovic]

What else are there for Cons? I know there is origins, GenCon Indy and SoCal, and dragon con... any others? any in New York?

[Moderator Sinister]

What else are there for Cons? I know there is origins, GenCon Indy and SoCal, and dragon con... any others? any in New York?


I don't know of any in new york. There the essen game convention in germany and there's gen con UK, and Gen Con Spain.

[Stojakovic]

WOW taking over the world one Con at a time. Would there happen to be any cons in russia? I am going to spend 2 years over there and I just wanted to know

[prchamb]

Wow, how unfair Sinsiter. Neither you nor the other critics have ever been to Dragoncon... I don’t know how many gaming events there are, but really how many different events can you participate in?

At GenCon? 12 4-hour events plus time in the exhibit hall.

I live in Charlotte. Every year I look at the DragonCon gaming schedule and every year I can't justify the time and expense for so little gaming. Sinister's event comparison shows the problem perfectly. DragonCon is a large and great con, but it is not a gaming con. As such, you can't blame gaming companies for choosing not to attend.

[TrimChris]

Boardgamegeek.comCON (rolls of the tongue, doesn't it?) starts this year in Dallas in early November. Give it a couple of years, and it will become the best US con for BOARDGAMERS. We'll keep the other riff-raff out. :D

[Moderator Sinister]

Boardgamegeek.comCON (rolls of the tongue, doesn't it?) starts this year in Dallas in early November. Give it a couple of years, and it will become the best US con for BOARDGAMERS. We'll keep the other riff-raff out. :D


Are u suggesting that some of us Role Players are "riff-raff"? ok maybe we are but not in that euro gamer way. (wink wink)