Sniper Question

[Drowking]

This may have already been discussed, if so, sorry.
With the addition of the snipers should vehicles now have an option to be buttoned/unbuttoned up? I certainly would not be sticking my head out in a tank duel.
Thanks for any clarification.

[PatrickWR]

No such rule as of yet. I kinda doubt they'll make one...otherwise you'll just button up your vehicles on turn 1 and I'll have wasted 11 points on my Wermacht Sniper. So far they appear balanced as-is.

Now if "buttoned-up" also had a drawback as well, like -1 speed, then we'd have something to work with.

[Comassion]

I think that that would introduce a little too much complication into the rules, and could effectively negate the WE Sniper's special ability. Basically, you'd want 'proper' spotting rules to affect buttoned / unbuttoned status, as being able to see better is usually the only reason you want to stay unbuttoned.

[Patton4014]

However, it would have an impact on something like ability to hit at long range. And say a sniper hits the gunner on a Nashorn. Now it is disrupted. Very nice counter tactic for the Russians.

[357FTG]

keep it simple, let the sniper shoot

[XAos]

I agree with 357FTG. The whole point of snipers is the the enemy did not know when one was near. For a player to "button-up" all their tanks because their uber-knowledge of the map lets them see the sniper. Would be grossly non-historical.

[Dr.Cornelius]

I predict that the 11-point Wehrmacht Sniper will mean the end of high point cost tanks in competitive play. The metagame is already tilted in favor of running swarms of undercosted Shermans (and now Rhinos) and the Sniper's 90% Headshot makes the big tanks even less cost effective.

Its too bad really. Tanks like the Tiger I and Easy Eight clearly don't work in the 100 point game, but I had hoped that the 200 point game might have efficient builds that were not based on six or more Shermans/Rhinos.

The fundamental AAM mechanics are very strong. Now the game is in danger of being hijacked by special abilities that "break" the rules and are much more cost-effective than relatively generic units.

Don't get me wrong- I like special abilities that are balanced and don't dominate the game. For example, the set 1 special abilities added tactical options but did not break the rules anywhere near the extent of Brushcutters + Veteran Crew or Headshot.

[Richter von Manthofen]

The vehicle only armies could have been avoided, by a rule that for every vehicle 2 soldiers have to be fielded.

[madwill]

acutally if you think about it the "once per game" of the headshot might represent all other tanks buttoning up after the sniper attack thus denying him the oppoutunity.

[Bobsalt]

I predict that the 11-point Wehrmacht Sniper will mean the end of high point cost tanks in competitive play. The metagame is already tilted in favor of running swarms of undercosted Shermans (and now Rhinos) and the Sniper's 90% Headshot makes the big tanks even less cost effective.

Don't get me wrong- I like special abilities that are balanced and don't dominate the game. For example, the set 1 special abilities added tactical options but did not break the rules anywhere near the extent of Brushcutters + Veteran Crew or Headshot.

I’m in complete agreement. We’re (the guys I game with) are already finding that in a 100-point game, forces with one of the large tanks are difficult to win with. Yes, the Easy Eight is a great tank, but I’ve found that for just 7 points more using three Shermans gives much more tactical flexibility. I’ve gotten to play a lot of games now, and the Tiger has only gotten out of the box once – nobody wants to have that much of their force tied up in one unit. With this sniper unit available, there’s no way I’m going take an E8, to say nothing of an IS-2. You just can’t afford to have that many points of your force rendered impotent by a gimmick like this.

I like the special abilities in the game, too, but I think some of them weren’t really well thought through. This is the reason I had suggested some abilities (such as Veteran Crew) should be represented by a special card, available to be purchased and used for any unit – crew quality and command abilities have been part of many wargames I’ve played in the past. I speak from little experience in this exact situation, though, as some of you have said this has already been tried in similar games and was even more unbalancing.

acutally if you think about it the "once per game" of the headshot might represent all other tanks buttoning up after the sniper attack thus denying him the oppoutunity.

I agree – this makes sense to me, though I still don’t like the unit, and wish they hadn’t added it. As much as I dislike it, though, it does work both ways. I want aircraft, some don’t. Some want snipers, I don’t. Both are historical, and as such both should be part of the game.

[Drowking]

I guess I may have been a little unclear in my first question. Pretty typical of me. What I meant to say was if there was a situation where my tank was in a firefight with another tank(s) and say a sniper was hidden nearby this fight I would assume I would be already buttoned up and therefore should not be subject to the headshot. Maybe they could make a rule that would say if you are engaged or taking fire you are buttoned up. I agree that, if say, your tank was just prowling around looking for a target that you would be out getting a better view. I realise that the Sniper only gets one shot per game but that could be very important in certain situations.
Sorry for complicating things!

[PatrickWR]

I guess I may have been a little unclear in my first question. Pretty typical of me. What I meant to say was if there was a situation where my tank was in a firefight with another tank(s) and say a sniper was hidden nearby this fight I would assume I would be already buttoned up and therefore should not be subject to the headshot. Maybe they could make a rule that would say if you are engaged or taking fire you are buttoned up. I agree that, if say, your tank was just prowling around looking for a target that you would be out getting a better view. I realise that the Sniper only gets one shot per game but that could be very important in certain situations.
Sorry for complicating things!

No problem man! This would make for a great house rule, but WOTC has been reluctant to introduce new universal rules because its hard to gauge how it will affect the whole game. So I could definitely see a "Buttoned Up" special rule on the King Tiger's stat card, maybe, but I'm afraid we won't see such a rule crop up as an addendum to the printed rulebook. T'would make for too much housekeeping in-game...they wanna keep it fast and simple.