French Tanks,Vive la France, vive la liberté!!!

[Reichgard]

Ok,here we are,I ought to know if any GOOD French tanks are coming out or not. My favourite are the Somua-35 and the Char B1-bis(these 2 tanks were considered to be the best of all contemporary tanks)even better than the the German panzers,but it was the tactical use that ruined them,initially they were spread too thin,and,France fell too quickly.....

I know the Renault is out(no need to remind me!!) :eek:

[komichido]

Not to be contradictory but I have read the Char B1 bis was a high maint. tank, which made its effectiveness in combat not as good. I also read that its one man turret was a drawback in battle. This is just what I have read about this tank.

Komi

[Stojakovic]

Well I don't know much about french tanks but I did vote for the S-35

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/817/somuas35067yk.jpg

[Le Poilu]

Allons enfants de la patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arriv!

:D

Ahem. Sorry. Got a little carried away when I saw the topic.

I would definitely recommend the Char B1 bis and the Somua S-35 to give the French heavy and medium tank options respectively. While the F-17 was the available in the largest numbers of any tank in service in 1940, and the H-39 was available in numbers comparable to that of the R-35, the light tank niche is effectively filled by the Renault already - I don't see a need to duplicate roles with successive models.

And the one-man turret sucked - there's no kind way to say it. French doctrine for tank use (support for infantry, not tank-to-tank engagements) really hampered effective design and utilization of armor.

[komichido]

It is a mean looking behemoth though! LOL

komi :D

[Stojakovic]

Ok I must be missing something here... Why is there a heart on the S-35 :confused:

[PatriotUSA]

Why is there a heart on the S-35?

The French used playing card symbols on their tanks to identify the platoon to which a vehicle belonged.

[Stojakovic]

The French used playing card symbols on their tanks to identify the platoon to which a vehicle belonged.

That is sweet... Long live the French :cool:

[PatriotUSA]

Not to be contradictory but I have read the Char B1 bis was a high maint. tank, which made its effectiveness in combat not as good. I also read that its one man turret was a drawback in battle. This is just what I have read about this tank.

Komi

In addition to the points you make above, the Char B1 also had a huge vent grate on its left side that was a conspicuous weak spot. Also, most French tanks had extremely short range, which not only slowed them down considerably, but also left them vulnerable while refueling, which was frequent. An awkward internal arrangement and lack of radio further hampered the Char and most French tanks.

So, while the Char B1 had the best gun and armor combination of any tank at the time, but I don't think it deserves the to be called of best tank in the Battle of France. I'd probably give this title to the German Mark III, or maybe the British Matilda.

[Waffen-ss]

The French armor was good better than the german armor at the time. It was just manned by the French tank crews . LOL
"French WW II rifle on ebay for sale only been dropped once"

[DocD]

AAM should definitely have the S-35 and Char B1.
These tanks helped to make up the back bone of the French Army in the early part of the war.

Of course, with the French military doctrine and defeatist attitude, they will be considered junk tanks, but since when does that disqualify a tank from making the miniature plastic cut. (Sure as hell didn't stop the Italian Armato from making a scene.)

[Danyel Phelps]

French Armor had the disadvantage of lacking situational awareness. The commander was completely shielded by an oversized cupola which prevented him from seeing much of anything. Though this did keep him relatively safe, it made quick evacuation difficult and target identification even more so. Another problem with the French Char B1-Bis is that it had its main cannon mounded in the hull on an archaic sponson, not allowing any significant left/right movement. This meant that the tank had to rotate itself to line up the 75mm howitzer. This is inefficient, as anyone who has played WW2 Online knows.

The Char B1-Bis's only saving grace was the overload of armor which rendered it almost immune to most German AT guns of the day. The S-35 was a much better vehicle, save for the same limitations placed on the commander. If you look hard at a picture of the S-35 and the Sherman tank, you will see some similarities. Many French armor concepts lived on after the fall of Paris in the American military.

[Le Poilu]

Many brave French men and women fought and died for their country.

Can we please have this discussion without resorting to insulting stereotypes?

[Kriegshund]

Many brave French men and women fought and died for their country.

Can we please have this discussion without resorting to insulting stereotypes?

I agree, sterotyping the the French of that era with either systemic cowardice or incompetence is ignorant.

I like your signature, Le Poilu.....

"I was a soldier, I obeyed"...... General Jacques Massu who answering the call of General De Gaulle joined the Free French Forces and fought in the the battle of Fezzan in Libya and fought in the liberation of Paris with Leclerc's Second Armor Division.

I think by the end of the war the Free French Forces comprised 1.2 million men with about 10 divsions that had been fighting in Europe including Germany.

[PatriotUSA]

Many brave French men and women fought and died for their country.

Can we please have this discussion without resorting to insulting stereotypes?

Agreed. Vive la France! Vive la liberté!

Now back to the tanks... While I think French tanks tend to be overrated in most wargames, I still like them, particularly the Char B1 bis, which is the tank I would most like to see AAM produce.

[fifleche]

Many French armor concepts lived on after the fall of Paris in the American military.
Never heard this before. And, the first time I looked at this thread, I tought, "Hmmm... This Somua tank looks alot like a Sherman..." LOL!

Well, now that it has been pointed out, could anybody post me a link to some online ressource I could read about this? I would be most grateful. :)

[Reichgard]

One thing the Somua and Sherman had in common was they're hull were both fully cast by mould.This was a great advantage when it comes to maintainance and assembling parts,and while you have enough resources,tanks keep pouring out. :D

[Kaufschtick]

Many brave French men and women fought and died for their country.

Can we please have this discussion without resorting to insulting stereotypes?

Agreed. Fought and died for this country too. I doubt the troops at Yorktown were were wisecracking the French back in 1781. Funny how people forget.

[NEVjr]

One thing the Somua and Sherman had in common was they're hull were both fully cast by mould.This was a great advantage when it comes to maintainance and assembling parts,and while you have enough resources,tanks keep pouring out. :D
and cast armour tends to shatter when hit, its the crappiest armour system known

[Danyel Phelps]

It doesn't shatter, it's just on average lower BHN than RHA. Low BHN is soft and easy to penetrate. Armor only shatters when it is high BHN.

Only M4A1s and M4 Hybrids had cast hulls.

[WotC Bob]

When I was in the Army, I went over to England and France in 1990 to do some D-Day ceremonies. I have never been treated so kindly as a soldier as when I was in Normandy. Many of the restaurant/shop owners were kids during WWII and they treated me like a minor member of royalty.

While I'm on the subject, standing on an old bunker on the bluffs overlooking Omaha Beach at low tide is a sobering experience.

[Pete G]

Although the engagement ended up in a French defeat, the armor duel at Flavion on 15 May 1940 certainly took a toll on German armor. It wasn't until the speedier German tanks soaked up some significant losses and finally drove into the flanks of the French armor that the tide of battle started swinging to the Germans. Additionally, some accounts I've read state that the French tanks simply ran out of gas after a while. Their crews bailed out, and some even sabotaged their own vehicles.

If anyone has the old "West Front" Campaign Series PC game from Talonsoft, there's a decent scenario that models this engagement.

-Pete

[Richter von Manthofen]

Many brave French men and women fought and died for their country.

Can we please have this discussion without resorting to insulting stereotypes?

Bravo!

AFAIK the French had good weapons, good morale, a not so good leadership and a - excuse me to be direct - lousy doctrine.