just made a decision...

[Major Adler]

I was very critical of the game when it was released...I gave it a chance...

because of the following reasons...

1) - lack of historical content
2) - too many unwanted units
3) - unwanted planes in set III
4) - other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

hey AH/WOTC - when you design a historical game you must embrace the historical gamer...nice try...

Adler...out...............

[Der Panzinator]

That was a rather strange update. I guess we were all holding our breath to see if Adler liked the game or not.... :rolleyes:


I love historical games, but if you thought that was what you would get out of a skirmish level game made by a company who produces a lot of collectible games then you should have known better from the start.

Rather then turning your nose up at it you should think of the positive points that you may not consider.

If you want to play a quick game while waiting for a group to start a larger historical game this is perfect for that.

Even more important if you want younger people to become interested in historical type games then this game has scored an A+. There is a huge influx of other genre of gamers that find the historical aspect of this game intriguing while also being very familiar to them. Also for any people you might want to get into gaming this is a great entry level game.

You can dismiss this game if you wish, but I think you are only doing yourself an injustice.

[PatrickWR]

That was a rather strange update. I guess we were all holding our breath to see if Adler liked the game or not....

Yeah, rather asinine to burden us with your grand farewell, Major. Hope you get a good price for your stuff on ebay, though.

[WotC Bob]

If you want to agree/disagree with Major Adler's points and debate those, great, but let's try and steer clear of making personal attacks.

[Irish]

Whether one agrees with it or not, another individual's (reasonable) opinion should be respected.

[tomster]

If you want to agree/disagree with Major Adler's points and debate those, great, but let's try and steer clear of making personal attacks.
your right i wont motivat him. major you should just quit.

[ops32]

[QUOTE=Major Adler]because of the following reasons...

1) - lack of historical content
2) - too many unwanted units
3) - unwanted planes in set III
4) - other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

QUOTE]

#1 was the whole reason I got interested in this game - WW2 minis! The historical content is skewed a bit in order to make this a one hour "beer & pretzels" game. I can see where folks would be disappointed if they expected a strict historical simulation, but this game wasn't supposed to be that.
#2 is something you learn to live with in a collectable game. You can either trade the unwanted to someone who wants it, or buy singles. I resorted to eBay to complete my set.
#3 is a wait & see issue as we have no idea how they will be incorporated. I'd prefer the game remain ground-based, but I'm not the designer, developer, or owner of WotC. ;)
#4 is a personal preference. I've left several collectable games over the years as they have diverged from my interests. Despite the $$$ I'm hoping WotC will create a Napoleonic mini game, and an American Civil War mini game, and a Starship Troopers mini game (the book, NOT the movie...), and... and... :D

[peterogers]

A bit "grandstandy" maybe, but it's always a shame to lose a grognard :(

Hey, if you want your parting act to be to foster anglo-US relations you could always sell me your figs :) Seriosuly though - good luck on eBay, prices are good right now so if you are serious about getting out of the game nows probably a good time to sell.

Best of luck, and may you always roll 6's :)

[Darth Nazi]

Rather then turning your nose up at it you should think of the positive points that you may not consider.




Here, Here...

[tomster]

I was very critical of the game when it was released...I gave it a chance...

because of the following reasons...

1) - lack of historical content
2) - too many unwanted units
3) - unwanted planes in set III
4) - other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

hey AH/WOTC - when you design a historical game you must embrace the historical gamer...nice try...

Adler...out...............
hey majoy buy singles and tell your hobby shop to do the same

[wormfood]

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

Can I have your stuff?

[jeffyoungca]

Can I have your stuff?

Damn! Beat me to it. :)

[TheFoeHammer]

1. Its historical enough for me. The computer game Panzer General was like this in some ways. Abstract where it had to be. Historical Rules/Mechanics to make it fun.
2. I have less unwanted pieces than I do in many of my other games. (Some of which you play)
3. I am still wait and see on the planes issues. I personally want them as a collector. If the rules aren't too cheesy, I'll probably be fine with them.
4. Well I do some of the games you do. I have LOTR TMG which is ended now, SW and D&D Minis, and Heroes of Might and Magic CCG. I've just decided I will be broke. ;-)

[skeevo666]

Adler...out...............



So this time it's for real?




.

[tomster]

Can I have your stuff?
hey i was giong to ask that but i did not want people to think i was mouching. i take his unwanted pieces hey could write it off to cherity

[elbowsanchez]

I was pretty skeptical about this game at 1st, being a purist Axis & Allies boardgame person...

the thing that makes this different is the effort put out by the company, ie extra maps, scenerios, the tangibles, the freebies...unlike the other Axis & Allies lines, where it is released, then the company seems to detatch from any support.

the set II, was to include more soviets...somehow I missed the eastern front thing, most likely due to just seeing the expansion for memoir 44 eastern front...guess I just mixed them up...

I personally like all the different combinations on the things that can be done with this game...give it another go, get your information correct on where your getting your info, lastly, have fun, life is too short, and watch out for those FLAME tanks!!!

cheers

ES

[Dagger]

Sorry to see you go. Repect the right to your opinion. My opinion however is quite the opposite. WoTC has me hooked into this dang game for the long haul :) I've been waiting for mini's like these for...oh...about 37 years. Best of luck to you.

Dagger

[Type-A]

I've been waiting for mini's like these for...oh...about 37 years. Best of luck to you.

Wow, since you were 2? I've only been waiting 35.

[Dagger]

Wow, since you were 2? I've only been waiting 35.

Your assuming I'm 39. I've been waiting since I was 5. I'll let you do the math ;)

Dagger

[richyj1]

My local gaming store has open gaming every Sunday afternoon - I can always find several people playing AAM there to play against. Can I say this for any other historically-flavored game? No, I can't. So while AAM might not be perfect, I certainly do enjoy it since it is pretty quick & easy to learn and because of the (relatively) large number of opportunities to game it gives me...

[tomster]

My local gaming store has open gaming every Sunday afternoon - I can always find several people playing AAM there to play against. Can I say this for any other historically-flavored game? No, I can't. So while AAM might not be perfect, I certainly do enjoy it since it is pretty quick & easy to learn and because of the (relatively) large number of opportunities to game it gives me...
my hobbie shops like this too plus thers are couple others but i stay loyal to mine.

[fenyan]

Well at least Adler gave it a fair shot.

[Der Leiter]

Well at least Adler gave it a fair shot.

I'm not so sure about that. I think perhaps he went in with the wrong mindset for this game, because if you'll look back nearly every post was complaining about some aspect of the game.

Granted it isn't perfect, and is a very simplified game. But that was pretty much known from the start.

I'd suggest selling them on eBay (as a lot, or multiple lots of nations depending on the amount you have), unless of course there's someone close by to buy them off of you.

[Type-A]

Your assuming I'm 39. I've been waiting since I was 5. I'll let you do the math ;)

Dagger
When you get older perhaps you'll appreciate my left-handed compliment. :rolleyes:

[Waffen-ss]

He has a grandstanding farwell. "Who cares", another armchair critic gone .
This game for me is fun fast and I love the collecting aspect of it. That is the point right? Did I miss somthing "it said it was a collecting game. Historcal acurracey aside ( if you want that spend 500$ and paint your own figs at more cost and weight as they are pweter and play flames of war).
This game is pure fast fun :D


Farwell :p

[tomster]

I was very critical of the game when it was released...I gave it a chance...

because of the following reasons...

1) - lack of historical content
2) - too many unwanted units
3) - unwanted planes in set III
4) - other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

hey AH/WOTC - when you design a historical game you must embrace the historical gamer...nice try...

Adler...out...............
he should sell his unwants on ebay or trade over the mail via the forum.in this forum he meet people call them up and trade or sell did he think of that. or does he need a hugh

[SSG_Huble]

I was very critical of the game when it was released...I gave it a chance...

because of the following reasons...

1) - lack of historical content
2) - too many unwanted units
3) - unwanted planes in set III
4) - other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

hey AH/WOTC - when you design a historical game you must embrace the historical gamer...nice try...

Adler...out...............

Personally, I think that just about anything in life can be ruined as a result of over-critical analysis.

Sometimes, when you go to a movie, you have to remember that it is just a movie. If you want to enjoy it, you may have to suspend your disbelief, if only for 90 minutes. If I want realism, I'll watch CNN or MSNBC.

You may find yourself consummately enamoured by a woman as you gaze at her from afar. Your imagination imposes certain qualities, characteristics, and mannerisms that go beyond what you know and into the realm of what you desire. After you actually date her for a couple of months, reality replaces fantasy and well,...you get the idea.

As always, take everything I say with a grain of salt, and apply only as you feel fit.

[tomster]

Personally, I think that just about anything in life can be ruined as a result of over-critical analysis.

Sometimes, when you go to a movie, you have to remember that it is just a movie. If you want to enjoy it, you may have to suspend your disbelief, if only for 90 minutes. If I want realism, I'll watch CNN or MSNBC.

You may find yourself consummately enamoured by a woman as you gaze at her from afar. Your imagination imposes certain qualities, characteristics, and mannerisms that go beyond what you know and into the realm of what you desire. After you actually date her for a couple of months, reality replaces fantasy and well,...you get the idea.

As always, take everything I say with a grain of salt, and apply only as you feel fit.
amen brother,

[Dagger]

When you get older perhaps you'll appreciate my left-handed compliment. :rolleyes:

I'm getting older? Dang! ;)

Dagger

[tomster]

I'm getting older? Dang! ;)

Dagger
yeh boy!!!

[Geobaldi]

I wonder where he's getting completely accurate Historical games. I have enough trouble finding flawless historical accounts of events, much less trying to find a miniature game that doesn't TRY to manage gameplay along with a historical basis.

If you're thinking Flames of War, you won't be happy there either. "Accuracy" always takes a backseat to "Gameplay", no matter where you go.

[tomster]

I wonder where he's getting completely accurate Historical games. I have enough trouble finding flawless historical accounts of events, much less trying to find a miniature game that doesn't TRY to manage gameplay along with a historical basis.

If you're thinking Flames of War, you won't be happy there either. "Accuracy" always takes a backseat to "Gameplay", no matter where you go.
yeh boy!!!!!

[Vulturedoodle]

If you want to agree/disagree with Major Adler's points and debate those, great, but let's try and steer clear of making personal attacks.
Very true, and I support this. But the nana-nana-boo-boo name he used was kinda funny....

--SEF

[tomster]

Very true, and I support this. But the nana-nana-boo-boo name he used was kinda funny....

--SEF
yeh boy !!!!

[Tannhauser]

A few things:
1. Tomster, no one here cares about your post count, so please stop spamming the boards with two-word posts that contribute nothing to the discussion.

2. I understand and accept that AAM is not for everyone. However, I do feel that more than enough information was provided to allow anyone interested in the game to decide whether or not AAM was a game for them before purchasing it. The rulebook was posted online and the unit stats are easily available. Do the research before you spend the money.

3. Adler, in regards to your specific points:
-"Lack of historical content" means what? That the game isn't 100% historically accurate? Welcome to what is called a "game" and not a "simulation." Yes, yes, yes, I know you can have a game that is both "historically correct" and "fun," but the problem is, "fun" for who? AAM is a mass market collectable game. Catering to a very small demographic is what put the old Avalon Hill out of business.
-"Too many unwanted units," well, it's called a "Collectable Miniatures Game." Again, unit information was available so you made the choice to buy now knowing exactly what you would get.
-"unwanted planes in set III" is an extremely unfair condemnation given that we know nothing about how they will be implemented. For all you know, you just might love how they work.
-"other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)" is an excellent point. It IS a tough market. That's why I highly suggest that everyone should do their homework on a game before they invest in it.

[Autarch]

Well, I guess he wasn't interested in using the miniatures for more realistic games or simulations.

I wonder why he didn't use the opportunity to post in the marketplace forum or direct people to search ebay for an auction of his gear.

Maybe he really likes Set I and wants to keep it, but from his other posts it seems he'd want to recoup his investment, or at least trade it for pieces from games he likes.

:confused:

[tomster]

Well, I guess he wasn't interested in using the miniatures for more realistic games or simulations.

I wonder why he didn't use the opportunity to post in the marketplace forum or direct people to search ebay for an auction of his gear.

Maybe he really likes Set I and wants to keep it, but from his other posts it seems he'd want to recoup his investment, or at least trade it for pieces from games he likes.

:confused:
he is a major he is use to camplaining and getting his way. i used to be a sgt and had to kiss people like hims ass. well thing are not going to his way with A and A, so tell him welcome to the real world. he is a wargaming private.

[tomster]

I was very critical of the game when it was released...I gave it a chance...

because of the following reasons...

1) - lack of historical content
2) - too many unwanted units
3) - unwanted planes in set III
4) - other games that I enjoy (it's a tough market)

I have decided to pull the plug now before I spend too much $ on this game...

hey AH/WOTC - when you design a historical game you must embrace the historical gamer...nice try...

Adler...out...............
men i just made a disistion. i dont like A and A mini. no one the battalion can play it is off limits. if your caught playing i will hammer you. haooh!!. yes sir

[Stojakovic]

Sorry to hear you leave. I really enjoy this game my self. But I guess we all have our tastes. You can also use them for dioramas if you are into that thing.

[madwill]

personally, i want to know what ultra-realistic game he plays. every wargame i have ever played has some level of abstraction even the highly complicated ASL.

[Stojakovic]

personally, i want to know what ultra-realistic game he plays. every wargame i have ever played has some level of abstraction even the highly complicated ASL.

The most ultra realistic game I have played so far is paintball and airsoft but I am guessing that does not count.

[tomster]

The most ultra realistic game I have played so far is paintball and airsoft but I am guessing that does not count.
no it dont count.

[tomster]

personally, i want to know what ultra-realistic game he plays. every wargame i have ever played has some level of abstraction even the highly complicated ASL.
he is just mad becuase he cant have his way. i played ASL its close. he is just use to telling people what to do and getting his way, its as simply as that. hi sir thanks for leaving. h-minus

[Muenchausen]

Ya, not like some people who had entire threads deleted because of their hysterical ranting and raving. :D

[tomster]

Ya, not like some people who had entire threads deleted because of their hysterical ranting and raving. :D
you are still talking smack! i have had no problems with anyone until you returned. please do not talk to me becuase i do not care about you, so why do you talk to me. hey mabey your ranter and raver and think your normal.

[Muenchausen]

Your still just as immature as always and I'll post to anyone anytime. Now get hysterical. :D

[skeevo666]

If you have problems with each other, then I suggest you add the offending party to yr "ignore" list . . .



.

[tomster]

If you have problems with each other, then I suggest you add the offending party to yr "ignore" list . . .



.
i dont talk to this dude but he wont leave me alone. he always follows my conversations like he has some atraction to me i always tell him not to talk to but he wont leave me alone. i do not know whats wrong with him

[skeevo666]

i dont talk to this dude but he wont leave me alone. he always follows my conversations like he has some atraction to me i always tell him not to talk to but he wont leave me alone. i do not know whats wrong with him



Click on "User CP" and the second option from the bottom is "Edit Buddy/Ignore lists".

Add his name to yr ignore list and you won't see posts by him anymore.

Simple.
Effective.
and totally in yr power to do . . .



.

[Muenchausen]

Major Adler, Sorry to see you go. Enjoyed your critiques and critisisms of the game. They were food for thought. I very rarely agreed with your position but your comments always caused me to rethink my positon on diffent aspects of the game. Unlike some of the mindless dribble thats posted like "What yu wanna see in da set iii" and "Me no can wait to ataky china with my jaipoaineses armys". I think some people will post anything just so they can bump up their post count and thus feel like they've contributing something.

[dakrotee]

I'm very to hear you are pulling the plug Major Adler. Can I have you game pieces?

[tomster]

Click on "User CP" and the second option from the bottom is "Edit Buddy/Ignore lists".

Add his name to yr ignore list and you won't see posts by him anymore.

Simple.
Effective.
and totally in yr power to do . . .



.
thanks your a god

[ops32]

he is a major he is use to camplaining and getting his way. i used to be a sgt and had to kiss people like hims ass. well thing are not going to his way with A and A, so tell him welcome to the real world. he is a wargaming private.

Hey! Not all Majors are like that! ;)
ops32
Major, USAF Ret.

[Muenchausen]

Be careful. tomster can say anything he wants but when you critise him, he gets histerical.

[PatrickWR]

Be careful. tomster can say anything he wants but when you critise him, he gets histerical.

BWA-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!1 Amazing!

[tomster]

Hey! Not all Majors are like that! ;)
ops32
Major, USAF Ret.
sorry sir, i work for more great officers than bad ones. but you know what i am talking about.

[ops32]

sorry sir, i work for more great officers than bad ones. but you know what i am talking about.

I know. Just had to give you some grief! ;) :)

[Chairman7w]

Well, this is at least the second time Adler's pulled the plug... Still not sure why he felt the need to "announce it" to us all, but - to each his own.

[henrym203]

Ill paypal you $20 for your stuff :)

[tbopper1]

He has a grandstanding farwell. "Who cares", another armchair critic gone .
This game for me is fun fast and I love the collecting aspect of it. That is the point right? Did I miss somthing "it said it was a collecting game. Historcal acurracey aside ( if you want that spend 500$ and paint your own figs at more cost and weight as they are pweter and play flames of war).
This game is pure fast fun :D


Farwell :p


No need for fantastic exageration to make a point. I would bet most collecters will spend far more on A&AM than on even a matched pair of FOW army's (about $200 each). As far as that goes cost is the worst argument to be made for A&A. Who pays $15 a booster for these stunningly average figs? Not anybody close to the 12+ crowd. Massive slashes to the retail price is the only way this game sells.

[tbopper1]

i used to be a sgt


And which branch of the armed forces gets to bear that shame?

[Kriegshund]

And which branch of the armed forces gets to bear that shame?

Unfortunately the Army, and being a veteran of the same, yes I am ashamed...

Fortunately, we have shining examples of prior service military like WotCBob, Komichido and The Foe Hammer that eclipse those of a more.....base....nature.

[komichido]

Thank you for the nod Krieg...however as a Marine Artilleryman I was trained at an Army base, so there is some good in it. Oh wait, that was Ft.Sill
lol....take that back! But really What would WWII would have been without the Band of Brothers. What would the unit in 'We were Soldiers' have done if they were not highly trained and led by a motivated, hard charging, brilliant leader.

Even the Corps has some knuckleheads in it.

Game on!

Komi out.

[tbopper1]

Fortunately, we have shining examples of prior service military like WotCBob, Komichido and The Foe Hammer that eclipse those of a more.....base....nature.


That is of course obvious in the posts. Even when your not calling for fire on each other. Strange game you artillarymen play but I'm sure its to help you all get over the depression of not becoming a Tanker. Army, Rome lover, and Artillaryman.......2 out of 3 aint bad Krieg. :D

[Redgar]

Surely being a Rome-lover isn't all THAT bad :p

Just my 2 ep worth,

Redgar

[Moderator Keldar]

http://boards1.wizards.com/images/smilies/raincloud.gifSorry guys, this has gotten way off topic. Dagger has a thread in the Rec Room called Branch of Service that would be an excellent place to continue this conversation. Check it out. Meanwhile, let's get back to commenting on Maj. Adler's decision to give up on the game.

[komichido]

Ok how about my utter shock that this thread has gotten so many responces and that it was amazing it took this long for it to derail! The guy left, we carry on. This game has a value, define what it is for you as an individual and decide whether it is for you or not. Adler did that, and whether or not we agree or disagree is of little or no consequence. I do believe he grandstanded a bit by posting his big departure. LOL, he got some serious run in this thread!

Arty rules, and tankers are stuck in their cracker boxes....lol....nudge....wink..

Komi out :D

[Muenchausen]

I agree with you Komi. If he was truely fed up with the game an no longer wanted anything to do with A&AM, he would have quietly sold off his collection or stored it away, closed his account and that would have been the end of it. But he decided to grand stand. I think he is still very interested in the game but he is also disappointed. Anyways whatever his motivation, I am extremely bothered by the personal attach he received for deciding to leave the game. He was personally insulted; he was insulted for being a Major, if he was a Major, and his service came under attack from an individual who claims to be a veteran. This is the third time I witnessed this individual attack someone. Major Adler did not deserve the assault he recieved from this individual. If you want to know whom I'm talking about go back and read this thread. I hope one of the Mods will do somathing about this individual because its getting old.

[DocD]

I for one applaud your "way out" Major. Just leaving quietly into the night doesn't speak volumes like saying "Hey, I'm outta of here!"

I enjoyed your comments Major and even though I didn't agree with all of them, they should be food for thought for the designers and producers of the game.

True, everybody isn't going to like this game, some for reasons as simple as rolling too many dice, but hey, one customer out is one less customer buying.

For those of you thinking this is just showboating at its worst...maybe it is....but just maybe it is somebody turning in a "merit report" also. Why wouldn't AH/WotC not want to read that? I would like to think that the designers would want to know why somebody is quitting on the game. Is it something they can change or improve on in the future? Maybe....Maybe not....but every company should have a "suggestion box".
I've had to read evaluations reports on my own performance. Some said "hey A+ work doc", some just said "good job", some said "could improve in some areas", some said flatout "You Suck!"

Part of life.....if the designers can use the Major's outting on improving the game...great....if not, that's great too....for somebody.

I'm just glad I like the game. I will continue to invest and voice my opinions on what I think is great, and what I think can be improved. And if the need ever arises that I want out....you can bet your last Tiger, Doc will let everybody know it.

......Doc out......

[Dirty Whiteboy]

I too sometimes feel the same way as the Major, but this is too fun a game to put down. It's worth staying interested in. Just buy in moderation.