Revised US Armored Infantry '44 org w Set II units

[Andras]

Squad- 26p
M1 Garand 4p
Bazooka 4p
BAR 4p
Halftrack-14p

Plt-135p
3 sqds- 78p
2 Vickers MG + Halftrack 30p
1 60mm Mortar + Halftrack 20p
Officer- RDC-7p (alt Inspiring Lt)

Company-533p
3 Plts- 405p
Heavy Weapons- 3x 57mm AT gun + Halftrack 69p
HQ section
3 Jeeps 8p
2 Halftracks 28p ,
2 Garand 8p
2 Bazooka 8p
Officer- RDC-7p

Still undercounting Bazookas, there should be 18 in each company.


Sherman platoon- 5 tanks 105p each
Sherman company- 3 platoons+ 2 HQ Shermans and 1 Sherman 105; 1 Jeep, 1 Halftrack, 2 trucks, 4 Garands- 399p counting trucks as jeeps and not counting the 105mm Sherman.

Light tank platoon- 5 M3 Stuarts
Light Tank company- 3 platoons, 2 HQ Stuarts, 2 Jeeps, 1 halftrack, 1 truck

[Lynx7725]

Just curious, in a 300 pts match what kind of force will you draw from this organization? Because in another thread I put together a Panzergrenadier 300 pt. force based on their organization chart. This is what I got: Wehrmacht Oberleutanent in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon A: Panzergrenadier in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon A: Panzergrenadier in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon A: Panzerfaust in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon B: Panzergrenadier in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon B: Panzergrenadier in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon B: Panzerfaust in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon C: MG42 in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon C: MG42 in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Platoon C: Light Mortar in Sd. Kfz. 251/1
Armour Support: Panzer IV G
Armour Support: Panzer IV G
Armour Support: Sturmpanzer IV Brummbar
Recon Support: Sd. Kfz. 222
Recon Support: Sd. Kfz. 222
This is about mid war I think.

[fifleche]

3 halftracks per squad, with "transport 1" SA...

[Andras]

I figured on keeping a real org of one 1/2track per 'squad'. They can all cram in in a non-combat situation :D

Lynx-
I would start off with a Sherman plt and a infantry plt, that'd be 240p, add a recon section of 4 Stuarts, that'd be 300 even

RDC
3 Garand
3 Bazooka
3 BAR
2 Vickers
1 60mm
5 Halftracks

5 Sherman

4 Stuarts

[Lynx7725]

Gack. In terms of infantry I think I might be able to match yours, but in terms of armour, as good as the Panzer IV G is, it just can't fight outnumbered 4.5 to one. (222s are not the greatest thing against armour, even against Stuarts. :( )

I pass. :)

[Andras]

Now that I think about it, in a 300 point game, I should be concerned about the heavy German tanks, and I wonder if Tank Destroyer detachment of 3 Hellcats would have been a better idea then the 4 Stuarts

[Lynx7725]

Personally? I would think 2 Hellcats and 2 Stuarts are better. Stuarts are useful if you can flank around and go after their crew-served arty and MGs. And you're not likely to get a flank shot with 3 Hellcats anyway -- and you badly need the flank shot's extra die in late war.

[TheCheeseManCan]

I'm guessing you're talking about FoW not AAM...

[Dr.Cornelius]

Here's a house rule solution that might even out the squad/halftrack issue.

It is my observation that most infantry units like M1 Garand actually represent half-squads. As you noticed, the Halftrack is meant to carry a full squad.

Solution:
Increase the Halftrack's transport capacity to 2 units.

Increase the stacking limit to 3 units per hex.

These two changes are not only historically reasonable but also make the overcosted halftrack more efficient and increase the effectiveness of infantry relative to armor.

[Lynx7725]

Err. WotC/ AH deliberately left the definition of how many actual man a single stand of miniatures represents. I personally intepret it as a one stand = one full squad, but many others take it as one stand = one section (part of a squad).

So, the issue on transports (and stacking, as you pointed out) is a grey area that is hard to nail down.

[Andras]

Lynx- I couldn't go 2 and 2 since that'd be 70 points, and we have 60 to spend.

I don't have a real 'historical' solution to finding a filler unit. I wish we had M8 Greyhounds available, I'd assume that they'd be cheaper then the Stuarts.

I could go 2 M24s and 1 Stuart, at 59points, but I think I'd rather have 4 Stuarts for the better anti-infantry attacks.

What if you tried this org for your 300p unit

1 PzIV platoon- 5 PzIVs-150p

PzG platoon- 133p
German Panzer Grenadiers-
Sqd-34p
1 PzGrenadier (set 1 or set 2) 5p
1 PzF30 5p
1 MG42 10p
1 -251 14p

Plt- 133p
3 sqds 102p
Wehrmacht ObLt 13p
Light Mortar 4p
-251 14p

So far, 283p, add in a PzIIF for 17p and you have 300 even

[Dr.Cornelius]

I wish we had M8 Greyhounds available...Wouldn't the Greyhound be functionally equivalent to the Humber? Maybe it should get an additional die at long range and maybe an additional die against armor due to the 0.50 cal MG, but the Humber seems close enough.

[Andras]

Dr C- M8s have 37mm cannon, they'd be closer to a Stuart for attack dice then a Humbar. They don't have a bow mounted .30 MG, but they do have a co-ax .30 and a pintle .50.

[Dr.Cornelius]

Hmmm... I must have been thinking of another armored car. Didn't the US have a scout car with a Browning 0.50 cal MG?

[Andras]

Maybe a White Scout car? Sort of a heavy duty Jeep.

White Scout Car (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/armored_cars/m3a1_scoutcar.html)

M8 Greyhound (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/armored_cars/m8_armoredcars.html)

[Lynx7725]

Lynx- I couldn't go 2 and 2 since that'd be 70 points, and we have 60 to spend.

I don't have a real 'historical' solution to finding a filler unit. I wish we had M8 Greyhounds available, I'd assume that they'd be cheaper then the Stuarts.

I could go 2 M24s and 1 Stuart, at 59points, but I think I'd rather have 4 Stuarts for the better anti-infantry attacks.
I think I rather go with 1 M18 and 2 Stuarts really. That's what, 50 points? You got enough Shermans to stop the front, the Hellcat's really for the sneaky punch from med to long range. 2 is good but 1 is sufficient IMO. 2 Stuarts working together should shred most infantry you intend to pounce on.

What if you tried this org for your 300p unit
1 PzIV platoon- 5 PzIVs-150p
PzG platoon- 133p
So far, 283p, add in a PzIIF for 17p and you have 300 even
Well, some fundamental difference in opinion here. Your unit organization assumes 10 men spread over 3 units and squeezed into one halftrack (3:1). My unit organization assumes 10 men in one unit and each unit has its own halftrack (1:1). No right or wrong here, just hideous expenses for me. :P

But, yeah, if I use your style of organization, this is pretty close to what I'm looking at. 'cept I may replace 1 PzIV and the PzIIf with uhm.. 47 points can net me a Nasty?