So... does ah WANT to make money?

[series]

Rocketville? Who exactly is the target audience? 5 year olds into complex gaming?

Pirate Game, Rocketville, (with stuggle) Neeeecks ooose ops? Vegas Showdown?

Do they not understand that we want WAR, not pirate monopoly!

Please AH, for your next game, make it combat or something. I would love to see a game like A&A minis but an out-of-the-box WWII game. A new franchaise. How about something like an Axis and Allies game with a different war period. Civil War? Vietnam? How about trying to INNOVATE a war game and make it unlike anything we've ever seen?

Or at least, PLEASE, if you have the time to make all these..... games like vegas and rocket, PLEASE make an A&A expansion. Give us better components for our base revised edition, like better cards, more chips, LHTR rules printed nicely like the real ones, maybe new units, more pieces where some were missing, etc. There's plenty of ways to shamelessly make money off of war.

And I bet they all will be more effective than the current game lineup.

Series hath spoken.

[Moderator Kayn]

Maybe this game is for those players who wanted something other than a war game. You woudnt want every game ever made to be just war types would you?
Wait... dont answer that. :p

[Chuckimus]

Maybe you should be pointed in the direction of GMT if you want wargames of many different varieties. I for one have enjoyed the non-war games that AH put out last year (with the exception of Sword & Skull) and can't wait to sit down with my family to give Rocketville a try.

[Imperious leader]

series...

you are my personal hero-

I thought i was in the minority opinion on this but you and I speak with the same direction. I hate what this company has become. The age group these game appeal too once stood for post graduate students of History and now fall in the range of people who never went to school because they are too young, or people who run elementary schools and need a few games for the Library.Either way its best to let the Germans make "German style games" Ah reminds me of that dumb kid in high school who wore sperry topsiders one week with a Le Coste collar turned up and the next week had a Mohawk, complete with dog collar and a "The Clash" style jacket and gestapo boots. Nothing follows any strategic gaming philosophy by AH, no plan or style of consistent game design is accomplished and no market plan is formulated to reflect the gaming consumer that buys these games... Its all about what feels good by the "in- house" designers. Talent should be brought in from proven designers who know how to make games and will be paid accordingly.

Rocketville is an unspeakable concept.. i better not even go there- good greif god help us..when will this fever at AH break?


Chuckimus: I hope you'll enjoy Rocketville... please buy a few copies.. i hope your kids arent any older than 6 years old.

[holywolfman]

Yeah, I am sorry...I have to agree too. I lost a bit of excitement with AH/Hasbro too. I used to really look forward to thier NEW games....now it is just..."ok, that might be a good game.." I am sorry to admit, I like Eagle Games and FF Games better now (AH used to be #1 in my books!) These other companies are just making the COOL games I love to play!

Sure, I will still support AH...no doubt! I still have "faith" in them...but truth be told: it is very much declining! Not to be over critical but, WHY CAN'T AH JUST LISTEN TO "US" ALREADY????

...anyone know?

[zooooma]

Talent should be brought in from proven designers who know how to make games and will be paid accordingly.

Proven designers like Richard Garfield and Larry Harris? Did you have someone else in mind?

The age group these game appeal too once stood for post graduate students of History...

I think Robo Rally has a large appeal to computer programers. I think anyone who enjoys programming and/or discrete math will love it. You must admit, in this day and age there are more Computer Science students than History students.

...i hope your kids arent any older than 6 years old.

You don't have any kids, do you? Most six year olds can barely read.

My daughter and my brother (seven years old each) are both very smart well spoken for their age. Both new how all the chess pieces move before they were four, both have both played lots of games all their lives, and both are good at math and reading.

These children can play Robo Rally, Nexus Ops Sword and Skull, Queen's Gambit, Monsters Menace America, etc, but they are not very good at them. They can also play games like Axis and Allies, but they are downright terrible.

If you consider the new AH games to be for kids, I have a hard time believing you have had any experience with either children or the new titles. Have you honestly played Robo Rally or Nexus Ops? Do you honestly consider them too basic for your average nintendo generation seven year old? I'm not sure if you are exaggerating or if you are really this out of touch.

[Moderator Sinister]

I would say theme is more family oriented in these games. I don't mind sitting down for a game of robo rally or nexus ops but I'd rather be playing A&A.

Don't get me wrong. There are times when robo rally is too much for my mind(and I screw up all the time), its not a very easy game but given the choice war strategy is more appealing to me than thinking out robot moves.

[zooooma]

A&A is my favorite as well.
-Luke

[Imperious leader]

Proven designers like Richard Garfield and Larry Harris? Did you have someone else in mind?

+++funny that i also stated that Ah should use more outside game designers and you have listed perhaps the only outside designers... While i was commenting on the poor designs of the inhouse people making these games. How could you miss that? BTW Larry Harris is basically the only guy who is keeping AH afloat... all by the brilliance of his design...a wargame i might add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperious leader
The age group these game appeal too once stood for post graduate students of History...


I think Robo Rally has a large appeal to computer programers. I think anyone who enjoys programming and/or discrete math will love it. You must admit, in this day and age there are more Computer Science students than History students.

++++ you think?

You don't have any kids, do you? Most six year olds can barely read.

+++++ they wont have to read to play AH latest offerings...


My daughter and my brother (seven years old each) are both very smart well spoken for their age. Both new how all the chess pieces move before they were four, both have both played lots of games all their lives, and both are good at math and reading.

++++++ thats good play chess with them often... I am rated 1530 and also play in tournaments in Calif and Nevada

These children can play Robo Rally, Nexus Ops Sword and Skull, Queen's Gambit, Monsters Menace America, etc, but they are not very good at them. They can also play games like Axis and Allies, but they are downright terrible.

+++++++again your making my points ... i will reiterate... these games you mentioned appeal to these people and this age group... Avalon Hill is the new incarnation of the Ideal Game company all within the span of one year!

Next time i have a baby shower to goto ill buy the kid a copy of Rocketville.. in 6 months hell be ready to play! LMFAO!

[J.L.Robert]

If you consider the new AH games to be for kids, I have a hard time believing you have had any experience with either children or the new titles. Have you honestly played Robo Rally or Nexus Ops? Do you honestly consider them too basic for your average nintendo generation seven year old? I'm not sure if you are exaggerating or if you are really this out of touch.

Some people just aren't interested in family fare, zooooma. In the opinions of some, unless there are counters for "Pzkw V, Ausf. G", or maps with hexes labeled "Kursk", "Rabaul", or "Bastogne", then the games aren't worth the time to pick up off the shelf.

(Feel free to insert your favorite military unit and/or battlesite in the above statement. I simply used typical examples; Ancients, Napoleonic, ACW, WWI and Modern enthusiats are also in large supply)

AH cannot JUST produce wargames; though there may be dedicated buyers for such, there is simply not enough wargamers to sustain a business on a corporate scale based on their purchases alone.

And that's not to say that current wargamers are going without. The A&A series is now many more games than the ONE I grew up with (the balance of MB's old Gamemaster Series wasn't all that great). While not all of them may be a particular person's cup of tea, they are being well-received, so I feel that they have to be doing something right.

Now, I'm probably not going to go off and buy this specific game anytime soon, because the SUBJECT MATTER doesn't appeal to me. But I have no opinion on the game mechanics, nor on the quality of play, becuase I have not actually played the game yet. But I'm not going to bash this title simply because I don't like what it's about. I'll wait until I play a game before I pan it (Phase Line Smash comes to mind).

If it's what the top brass at AH wants to put out, more power to them. It's their bottom line, not mine. And perhaps their next release will attract me; I'll see when the time comes.

[Imperious leader]

heck id like to see a wargame thats not WW2... what happened to Napolean or Ancients? WW1? Look at Risk :Napolean edition. That game is awesome... but you have to get a copy on ebay for 100.00. Avalon Hill should make a game like that.

[series]

series...

you are my personal hero-

I get that a lot. I hear there's a club now?

;)

oh and on topic- I personally would like to see them take a risk and make a game of an obscure war that most companies don't think to design games of. WWII has been played out plenty.

-series

[admiral_yamoto]

Although I do agree with you Series, you originally thought that MMA was for five year olds. (but i guess that's different cause there are tanks and dinosaurs!)

[series]

Although I do agree with you Series, you originally thought that MMA was for five year olds. (but i guess that's different cause there are tanks and dinosaurs!)

hahaha. come on, that was a joke. i even later said the game looked cool thanks to the previews.

[zooooma]

But I have no opinion on the game mechanics, nor on the quality of play, becuase I have not actually played the game yet. But I'm not going to bash this title simply because I don't like what it's about.

That is a reasonable and intelligent attitude.

-Luke

[TrimChris]

Vegas Showdown is definitely not family fare. It has some tough economic evaluations in figuring out what tiles are worth to you and what they are worth to your opponents. It was the best AH game released in '05. If AH makes more game like this I wouldn't shed a tear if they never produced another war game ever again.

Yes, I love my war games, but I really don't care if AH is the company producing them.

[boylermaker]

oh and on topic- I personally would like to see them take a risk and make a game of an obscure war that most companies don't think to design games of. WWII has been played out plenty.
Risk: The War of Austrian Succession?
I think there may be a reason why the old favorite wars are favorites and no one makes games about the others.

[Imperious leader]

For the first time I fully agree with your post. That is what AH should be doing. History has so many things to cover in a game, while its either ww2 or fantasy.. Why?

look at boardgamegeek and check out Risk Napolean Edition. Its awesome! Look at the prices for Risk 40th Edition.. About 100-300.oo usd. If axis and allies came out with a WW1 edition with metal pieces it would be the best seller since webbers with oscar meyer meat. I will take 20 copies of that game!

[boylermaker]

The WWI war-game has always puzzled me: WWI is about the most boring war of all time. If the game was anywhere near historically accurate, the game would just involve the major players turtling while they watched German beat down Russia in an eastern side show. If the game has no semblance of historical accuracy, why not choose a different war to paste a theme onto?

[admiral_yamoto]

WWI is about the most boring war of all time.

That is true, but I'm guessing the game might be fun,

after all, we don't expect the combat system to be based on trench warfare.

[TrimChris]

If axis and allies came out with a WW1 edition with metal pieces it would be the best seller since webbers with oscar meyer meat. I will take 20 copies of that game!

What if they made the game with metal counters? ;)

[Imperious leader]

The concept of a World War One game could be truely awesome. Have you ever played "Guns of August" by Avalon Hill? Its the best game on this subject bar none. Think of the battle of Jutland with basically the entire UK and German High Seas fleet going at it for the afternoon. How bout the battle of Verdun, which demonstrated such a loss of life it almost cost France the war. It made ww2 battles like Stalingrad look like a skirmish. Please read up on this war and you'll agree it was "The Great War" if their ever was one.

[Imperious leader]

"What if they made the game with metal counters"

If they did this then the value of this game would drop 80%. People want those damm pieces. Thats the reason why "Nexus ops" has been so sucessful right?