Europes Balance to A&A

[Darksideknight]

Europe in my opinion is far and away the most balanced of the three A&A games out so far. Hopefully this was taken into account when designing the new game. Mike said that the new game would be 50-50. I believe Europe is 50-50, and it is because of this, that I enjoy playing it more than the other two. I heard someone claim it was flawed. How so? Except that it is ussually a bad idea to go after anyone than Russia, I don't see a weakness in the game. You can buy a destroyer with the 12 ipc start, then a battleship and two transports on the first turn. After that you can build more transports and strategic bomb the heck out of Uk. After capturing convoys on the first two turns britan is very low on ipcs. If the Us doesn't buy fighters to fly there, you can build your fleet even more, and should have a reasonable chance to capture Britain. I like to play where Germany has to capture two capitals to make for a harder and longer game. That way you have to plunder the UK too,and this allows the allies to bring Russia back into the game. Give this a try if you think that the Europe game is too predictable, this play out isn't. This also allows Germany to build a massive fleet which is loads of fun.

-Jason

[ January 28, 2004, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Darksideknight ]

[The Rat King]

The reason many people feel that A&A Europe is unballanced is because they have encountered the dreaded "German stack" strategy at some point. Its nearly impossible for the Allies to win against that strategy.

The stack basically does to A&AE what the "shuck shuck" stragey did to the original A&A. It's a strategy that is so good that once somebody learns it they will use it every single game because it has a high probability of working. This makes the game too repetitive and one sided. I know a couple of people who hate the stack so much that they won't play A&AE anymore.

[Darksideknight]

Thanks for your response Rat King
I appreciate it

The reason many people feel that A&A Europe is unballanced is because they have encountered the dreaded "German stack" strategy at some point. Its nearly impossible for the Allies to win against that strategy.
The stack basically does to A&AE what the "shuck shuck" stragey did to the original A&A. It's a strategy that is so good that once somebody learns it they will use it every single game because it has a high probability of working. This makes the game too repetitive and one sided. I know a couple of people who hate the stack so much that they won't play A&AE anymore.
*

One question are you speaking for these many people or is this you're opinion as well?
I am well familer with the so called "German Stack" I routinly beat the six turn and so called "dreaded" 7 turn stack with no allied bids. I ussually have between 12 and 16 fighters in moscow by the time the stack gets there, along with around 70 ground units. This makes for a very edge of your seat game and ussually comes down to rolls in my games. I have been busting the stack for the last couple of years and only lost Moscow once in the last two years. (I still won the game invading Germany and holding it as they only had 20 units there.) I must say either people really Must be at a loss on how to muster a allied defense in Moscow, or there is something else out there besides that stack that people are losing to. In Europe sometimes there are battles Russia can't fight if it hopes to defend it's capital. There are also territorys it can't move a large millitary force into. I ussually just kept most of my whole army in Belorussia the whole game. Untill Germany comes with the stack and I fall back into Moscow for one more turn build. The trick is to get two fighters every turn into Lenigrad or Norway or where ever, just get them there! Always Build just infantry with Russia unless the stack is already busted.

With this being said the games can be very close it ussually comes down to rolls in Moscow. Although you should be sending fighters over every turn as well as building up a invasion force and clearing the convoys. With good control of the allies the games should be 50-50.

-Jason

[Darksideknight]

[ January 28, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Darksideknight ]

[USMMA95]

This is in regards to the "Stack": I believe that Germany has the edge. Unless the Allied player sends units to the Soviet Union, there is not much of a chance for the Allies to win. The game is a race between Berlin and Moscow. I am planning some games with some players that have not heard of the "Stack." This will be an interesting experiment to see how they react to it. One of the keys for the "Stack" to work is to keep the US and Britian dealing with the convoy boxes on the first three turns. By turn 5, Germany is one space away from Moscow. Another part is to buy the right units in the correct turn order. When taking out the US and British ships, the fighters need to be taken as casualties so that the subs can survive till turn three.

[Darksideknight]

Posted by USMMA95

This is in regards to the "Stack": I believe that Germany has the edge. Unless the Allied player sends units to the Soviet Union, there is not much of a chance for the Allies to win. The game is a race between Berlin and Moscow. I am planning some games with some players that have not heard of the "Stack." This will be an interesting experiment to see how they react to it. One of the keys for the "Stack" to work is to keep the US and Britian dealing with the convoy boxes on the first three turns. By turn 5, Germany is one space away from Moscow. Another part is to buy the right units in the correct turn order. When taking out the US and British ships, the fighters need to be taken as casualties so that the subs can survive till turn three.
*

I disagree strongly with your statement about fighters being taken as casulties. In my German stack strategy I never ever burn fighters before subs. The most effective German strategy that I've developed is to build a extra sub in the mid atlantic with the 12 ipc start. Take both US convoys and hit the US and British fleet in the Davis Straight. Two subs against a trans.and a destroyer. Even odds, this means if you win one or both of these battles the allies will have to take two turns no matter what, to get their convoys back. Assuming you've taken out the other British fleets. This meathod saves your fighters for use in Russia and keeps the Allies out of the convoys for two turns.

With regards to your statement that Germany has the edge, I do see a very slight advantage. That Advantage is that they have many more options in the second and third rounds. If the allies play right, and don't fight alot of even odd battles that aren't crucial in Russia, than the game should be perfectly even, German stack or not. The trouble is many people give this game a bad rap. While they haven't apparently played it enough to know all the in's and out's to be successfull against the "Stack."

Allied strategy should include

1- Clear convoys in the first round or two

2-Clear the Atlantic of German subs for safe passage.

3-Continually build fighters every turn to help Russian defense.

4-Russia must not move the bulk of it's infantry out of Belorussia!!!

5- When the German stack is moved to East Poland, Russia must have all, or allmost all of it's forces in Moscow.

6-IT is crucial you create an allied air strip in Finland or Norway, in case Germany moves to Baltic states. German stack to Baltic states takes away your direct fighter route.

7- Conserve your Russian infantry! Many battles no matter the size are ussually just dead zones. These dead zones are how the stack meathod works, they whittle away at Russia.

8- Convert Britain/USA Fighter/Bombers into Russian aircraft. The larger Russia's Airforce is, the larger Germanys "Stack will have to be to survive the Russian Dead Zone of East Poland. This Also allows allied navy build up, so Germany will not be able to send all of it's purchases to the front.

These tips along with lucky dice rolls,(Many lucky ones) have allowed me to survive the stack for the last two years. There have been lot's of close games but I feel if played right the balance is there.

-Jason

[The Rat King]

I know that the stack can be beaten, but I still hate it anyway because it makes the game too repetitive. Most German players know that if they don't use the stack their odds of winning are greatly reduced. So you get that strategy being used 9 out of 10 games, which forces the allies to do the same things in response and pretty soon every game starts to look the same.

I guess that this isn't so much a flaw of A&A Europe, but a flaw for any game that has a fixed initial setup. Eventually someone will develop an uber-strategy that is so effective that everyone uses it. Then someone comes up with a counter strategy and everyone switches. Personally, I have made it a point to not read any more strategy articles on the web. If you get too good at a game you reach a point where you can't enjoy the game unless you are playing against someone of equal skill. None of my friends are serious gamers.

[Darksideknight]

Posted by RatPack

I know that the stack can be beaten, but I still hate it anyway because it makes the game too repetitive. Most German players know that if they don't use the stack their odds of winning are greatly reduced. So you get that strategy being used 9 out of 10 games, which forces the allies to do the same things in response and pretty soon every game starts to look the same.

Well RatPack not much to argue over this time. I agree the game does seem very repetitive, IF you play the same stack strategy.
My A&A gaming circle plays tournement and non-tournement games just for this reason.
Tournement games ussually consists of same ol' same ol'. These games are played when someone wants to challenge another player for their ranking spot on a certain game.Consider these ranking spots like a depth chart for a sports team.

However, we like to play more non-tournement games to switch up strategys. I use these games to ussually try to build up a navy and invade Britain with with Germany. Take a look at my first post, using these rules next time you play, may help remedy the problem of repetition in the game.

-Jason

[Y2UAsk]

And this is nothing new to the hobby. Just dig out some old General magazines and read the torrent of articles that were published on the Viipuri defense in The Russian Campaign or the benefits to Japan of capturing Hawaii on turn 3 of Victory in the Pacific.

Steve

[Drax Kramer]

My group was discouraged from further playing of A&A:E when I conquered UK.

I saved all the initial IPCs, skirmished on the Eastern front and sent Italian fleet to Gibraltar sinking British destroyer.

My opponents suspected a Sea Lion, but did not change their usual "help Russia" purchases.

Turn 2, I spent 92 IPCs on transports and destroyers.

Turn 3, I captured UK and repulsed US counterattack. Game over.

It is true that British can prevent/delay Sea Lion with buying submarine before the game, but this helps Germany to proceed with super stack strategy.

I won't call the game broken, but it lost much of its appeal in my group.

Drax