Double-shot tanks

[Colonel_Coo]

Between the all-guns blazing, extra & additional Hull Mounted Cannon, which of these tanks makes the grade for you?

Polands 7TPdw. A 2/2 "tank". When I say tank, I am talking about the Japanese idea of armor. With minimal AT values, this "tank" is a Mobile Machine gun nest. Speed 3, all guns blazing 8/7/6. Against a 4/4 soldier it has a 50-50 chance of success on each attack at medium range.

So what makes this tank good? Its cost. At 8 points it is cheaper than a Vickers Machine gun team but is also slightly less effective at range. IN a recent 50 point skirmish, I deployed 4 of these little tanks against an Horde of SS PG's, a German Hero and an Hetzer. Mobility was key allowing me to kill the enemy's SS HF on turn 2. On turn 5 the game was over withthe Hetzer killing off my last tank, but not before these guys actually killed all the enemy Soldiers (Hero, 3 SS PG's, SS HF)

Next up on the chart is the
United Kingdom M3 Stuart. Another All guns blazing but with much better protection. A 4/3 armor makes this a nice rugged light tank. Where the Stuart really shines is its Speed 5. That speed means this tank can and will flank an OpForce. Its dice against infantry are minimally better, throwing an additional 1 die at medium range, but its AT gun is a real one. 9/7/5. Flank this little guy into hiding holes. Then when your main gun comes into view, you pounce on your opponent at range 1. The extra dice against soldiers work nicely for hunting snipers and commanders. In a 100 point build, it is possible to field 2 of these with 2 Crocs for a the ultimate game of cat and mouse.
I've played with and against the M3 Stuart. Ignore it at your own peril.

Linearly up on cost is the Char B1- bis from France. It has the only NON-RESTRICTED extra shot in the game. There is a difference betweens its EXTRA hull mounted cannon and the Additional ones no the LEE. Falling back on the slide-rule for AI values, it makes up for it in better AT values. 7/7/6 AI mimics a German tank, while 9/8/7 makes this a threat against medium tanks. Its extra attack is 8/7/5 against ANY target. Very solid. But what makes it a beef-cake is its Awesome 5/5 armor. My opponent hated it last night, complaining it was cheesey. My response: it is French, home to the best Cheese around. Come and get some.

Lastly are the two Lee. US and Soviet. I like the Soviet one better due to TRANSPORT and a 7 point cost reduction. With Tall Silhoutte, it is FIGHT or FLEE for this tank. No need to be tricky, either hide it or fight it! For the Soviets, a Spotter, Grenadier or Cossack Captain on board gives it more battlefield performance (See Hero Spawn tactics elsewhere on these boards) than the American Version for 7 points less.
For the US, I hope for a reversal on the previous rulling of interaction between Strike and Fade 1 and the Extra attack impact.
By the way, while its 9/7/5 main attack is poor against most medium & heavy tanks, you cannot forget about the 12/10/8 second attack against tanks.

[oddfellow]

I have 3 of the Char B1's and I'm quite fond of them. I've yet to play year limit games, but I'd imagine that these tanks would perform stellar in an early war environment.

[maciej12]

Originally Posted by oddfellow

I have 3 of the Char B1's and I'm quite fond of them. I've yet to play year limit games, but I'd imagine that these tanks would perform stellar in an early war environment.

They do. They are awesome tanks in ta 1940 or earlier battle.

[FSSF]

I like the look of 'old school' pre-WWII-style of all these tanks.

I've only tried the 7TPdw once. With 2/2/2 vs vehicles, it's more like a very slow (Spd: 3) armored car than a tank. 'All Guns Blazing' and the cheap cost (8) makes it interesting, but I prefer to use a faster armored car than this. By the time it gets in range to take out mortars, artillery, etc. it is dead. For the same price, the Humber Scout Car gets +2 speed with 'High Gear', 'Strike and Fade 2', +1/+1/+1 vs infantry, and +1 frontal armor!

The M3 Stuart has been my favorite tank since set I! Fast, cheap, able to flank medium armor or even heavies with a bit of luck (in one of my first games, I took out a Tiger I with a rear shot from my little Stuart) and pretty good vs infantry. It might be the best support tank in the game.

The Char B1-bis is the big guy in early war (1939-1940). Nothing to add here (I own 3 of them, in the same 100 points army I still get 37 points of support for 3 x 5/5 defense tanks! You can't get better than that in 1939-1940).

Have you seen the war movie 'Sahara' with Bogie? If you have, you have to like the M3 Lee... The only thing bad against it is the cost. The extra shot and lesser attack numbers vs vehicles is not worth +16 points over the M4A1 Sherman. 'Tall Silhouette' and 'Strike & Fade 1' are rather anti-synergetic SA in my book. Plus it is not very fast. The Soviet's version is a little better with 'Transport' and lower cost.

I would like to use these tanks, but outside scenarios or year-limited games, I never get to use them much (aside from the Stuart).

[UncaBret]

Tall Silhouette is ridiculous. A Lee in a forest or town hex cannot gain any cover. Lets see;
Lee L 5.64 W 2.72 H 3.12
King Tiger L 10.3 W 3.76 H 3.00
Tiger L 8.45 W3.70 H 2.93

So, which would be easier to hit?

[Colonel_Coo]

I totally agree on the Tall Silhouette for the Lee. I don't mind a weakened cover roll of some sort to reflect angle of the armor. Something like Cover only in a City or a Forest.

I have played the Polish "tanks" twice. I like them in 200 point 30 unit army build due to the Support roll on an infantry swarm pushing forward. I don't use them other than what they were designed for: infantry support.

I do lilke the FAST Stuart for striking enemy Depots and Mortars.

Again, I don't like the US Lee other for STYLE points; however, I don't mind using the Soviet Lee with Hero Spawn. It allows me to take another medium to heavy tank into the game but have a good chance of whacking two Elite PanzerIVd's in one turn.

[fifleche]

Lee has "tall silouhette" because of it's lower hull gun placement. But then again, by that token, so should the Char B-1...