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[GijoeNumberOne]

Read this quick!!! It may not be here in a few hours! Big business has long made it their interest to suppress those who might restrict the flow of money into the vaults, so when someone like long-time member “Remember-OWS” steps on their toes, then they feel they must eliminate them.

These forums were instituted so that players of AH/WotC/Habro games could pass on info between each other, and not be subjected to flaming or harassment by others. That is very commendable, since there are many forums that don’t care about what people say. But when a company decides to restrict those who don’t pull the party line, then why did 393,000 men die in WWII, and 47,378 men die in Vietnam (US casualties, not to belittle the other nations, but this is, after all, a US company)? To support company politics? I sure hope not.

I spent 4 years in the late ‘60's to ensure the right of free speech (among many other things), but, free speech, over the years, appears to be reserved for those who make the rules and the gold. OWS stepped on their toes once too many times, and so therefore it was deemed by the powers that be, that he be necessarily eradicated “for the good of all.”

If they even respond to this, all the Mods will surly come up with their political nonsense to justify their actions, after all, they are in the company employ. But I, like so many older members, can easily see through their polish and have become sick of it. I am 58 years old and have long since been able to recognize when a political cover-up is being slammed into place (be it governmental politics or financial.)

I would rather not be banned here, but if it is to be so, then I really don’t care. I’ll just post my opinions where censorship is not restricted – and, being irritated, I promise you, I will be more vocal about it.

Come on, Mods. I have read your code of conduct and believe in the basic concepts – after all, rules must be in place or chaos will reign. And I know that this is supposed to be a “family” site, but when someone rubs you the wrong way, shutting them down only makes others wonder if the censored one was too much on the mark, especially when they can’t read what you censored.

I have little faith in the protracted life of this game due to a wide number of reasons. I also wonder if WotC is desperate to cull in FoW gamers with your “new, consistent” 15mm pieces. When you first published this game, you printed on the box that it was for 12+ year-olds, but then you advertised it in magazines no 12 year-old even knew about. You tried, and succeeded in pulling in those who had the cash to by large amounts of your pierces, telling us that they were “Historically Accurate.” You knew what side your bread was buttered, and then you jammed it up our backsides.

Of course, I’m a realist and know that you couldn’t care less what I have to say, but I just want to remind you that without the “big-bucks” crowd, this game is going nowhere. And I know you know it. Like you, this game will continue for about a year, then die completely (I’m being conservative, as I am sure you are), if for no other reason then the “big spenders” have gone onto better things. The newbies will disagree with me, but I have seen enough games come and go to know better. Your “disinformation” and drastic changes in scale, will keep some involved in this game, but you will not see the sales you saw in the first 3 sets. You know that, and so do I.

I’m tired of the ship-shod way WotC has treated its customers and, believe it or not, do hope that you change your methods, if only for the “believers”. But, as for me, I am done with it. As for those who feel they must “tow the line” and slam me, I’m sorry to say that I really couldn’t care less what you have to say, and will not respond to any such posts.

To each their own.

[Latro]

So you say that's it's a good thing we have rules here and you believe in them ... but "cry foul" when they are actually enforced?

[Floris777]

Well, I think Remember-OWS was banned for putting entire pages of the new rules online. That's just violating copyrights, even if they are overcharging us for the expanded rules. I really don't see how this is connected to WW II, even less so to the war in Vietnam.

What exactly are they covering up you think?

[Richter von Manthofen]

Originally Posted by Latro

So you say that's it's a good thing we have rules here and you believe in them ... but "cry foul" when they are actually enforced?

Rules are important. And they have to be enforced, but when the enforcer oversteps the boundaries iof his own rules crying foul is the thing to do.

Actually I do not know if someone (either side) "overstepped" the rules. There has been a great deal of tension on the boards.

I think both sides have overreacted (here I even migh include myself), but there are a few things that seem (at least to myself) to be facts:

1st - scale change issue - it should hacve been announced by WOTC/AH when the 2007 release article was put online (I admit it WAS there, but in a way NO one got it - afterwards it was clear)

2nd - when it became public knowledge WOTC/AH did not react like an adult , but rather like a 4 year old (I know I have children). I would have expected an official statement that said somethig like _ It was out decision because we want to make more money with the game - but not something : Our customers demanded this... At least a business related explanation (it would not have been liked) woould have been accepted...

3rd - expanded rules - low physical quality; little rule content - aside from that already known ( no I do not say the rule changes are bad in itself); advertised material NOT included (Comprehensdive unit list - this I understand, because with the release of the new game it would be unwise to publish something that is based on the old ruleset) I think the wole product is really a (rather obvious) move to get additional money out of the customers, because I think the whole product should have been included in the 1939-1945 starter set - will it be there?


Those three (interconnected) moves of WOTC/AH have angered a great deal of people (myself included), but after the initial uproar I think we should rest the case until we actually see the new product - and based on the new product we shall vote with our wallets - I for myself see no point on discussing the affair further.

BTW please lift the ban or Remember_OWS - The (his) part of the affair really is not worth that action...

[panzerpainter]

Originally Posted by Richter von Manthofen

BTW please lift the ban or Remember_OWS - The (his) part of the affair really is not worth that action...

Ditto. He was (is) a good guy. I have a coupe times posted things in the wrong forum, and so far, no problems, just closed or moved thread. But I am NOT an A&A player, only an A&A painter. So I am not as polished at finding things or where to post. Keeping in touch with this forum is a very, very, vital thing to me, and when I see people I had known as "good guys" get banned, I start to lose sleep. I gurantee I will lose at least some measure of sleep later, thinking about it.
I wanted to add my $0.02 in the "remember OWS" thread, simply saying I liked him, and if thier was any way to get him back it would be a good thing in my opinion. But the thread is closed (gasp).
I wish I knew what happened.
I feel I help WoTC by promoting thier peices. Several people have reniewed interest in the game as a result of having some nicer modded tanks to use. Is the door gonna be slammed on me for some infraction, even a minor one? Will I get a warning?

[Floris777]

Oh yeah, just to be sure, I don't support banning on Remember-OWS either. I think know why he was banned, but I think they should have just given him a warning and deleted the offending posts (or make him do it).

[panzerpainter]

I missed this post while reading through stuff. I can see how this mauy have caused problems. But was he warned or given a chance to edit them away? Only the shadow knows.
Anyway, I now have no contact info for him. He and I exchanged posts frequently, and I would like to continue chatting with him (I'm not going to start anything mods, please dont take this as a challenge). However, we never e-mailed each other, and I have no way to get in touch. Anyone who knows his e-mail, can you PLEASE PM it to me, d not post in in a thread, as I want no part of any accusation that I am stirring up trouble. Just a guy who has lost contact with a friend.

Originally Posted by Floris777

Well, I think Remember-OWS was banned for putting entire pages of the new rules online. That's just violating copyrights, even if they are overcharging us for the expanded rules. I really don't see how this is connected to WW II, even less so to the war in Vietnam.

What exactly are they covering up you think?

[Floris777]

Originally Posted by panzerpainter

I missed this post while reading through stuff. I can see how this mauy have caused problems. But was he warned or given a chance to edit them away? Only the shadow knows.

Well, we posted at the same time, but I hope my previous post explains my standpoint

[Lotus]

Lift the ban on Remember_OWS.

If he made a mistake by posting the new rules, then set him straight and let him back on w/ the agreement he not post them anymore.

This guy is one of the most polite on these boards, and fair. His being kicked out is a loss to these boards, make no mistake. And not just to the customer/player community. He was a proponent of the game for a LONG time, not to mention he owns a gaming store. Bad move if this is permanent.

So WoTC: please...give the guy another chance, just like a LOT of us give you repeatedly.

[ShotGun Jolly]

Originally Posted by Floris777

Well, I think Remember-OWS was banned for putting entire pages of the new rules online. That's just violating copyrights, even if they are overcharging us for the expanded rules. I really don't see how this is connected to WW II, even less so to the war in Vietnam.

What exactly are they covering up you think?

He was banned!? How long was he banned for? Did they give any reason, or did he just not show up on the boards the next day? And does can anyone send me an email address? Pass on my condolences!

Brutal!