Carro Armato Zerg FTW?

[jeffyoungca]

Has anybody tried this build?

8 x Carro Armato @ 12pts = 96pts
1 x whatever for the rest

I've been reading a lot here about the Sherman Rush strategy and have played it out with friends a few times with similar results to those posted here. As others have stated, the axis's main problem is the lack of a cost effective medium tank and the difficulty of getting anything out of extended range in a 4 map 100 pt range against a careful allied player. So I've been trying to think of how to beat it.

Apart from its unfortunate tendency to explode when looked at the wrong way, the Carro Armato is a bargain at 12 points. I'd say its a better matchup one on one vs the Sherman at medium/short range than the Sherman is against the Tiger. With 8/8/6 and overlapping fire it is very capable vs. infantry as well, especially since it will not have to face defense 5 Panzergrenadiers.

Against the standard 4 x Sherman, 2 x Humber Build you swarm the Shermans they same way they swarm a Tiger. The Humbers will be largely ineffective except for scoring occasional rear shots against damaged/disrupted Carro Armatos. Against more balanced armies you swarm the tanks and stand off at 4 hexes and blast the infantry.

Leaving aside the difficulty of obtaining 8 rares (not an insurmountable problem when armed with a credit card and internet access), what do people think of this?

[Frogslayer]

To counterswarm the swarm would be very cool!

But the problem is that sherman is more cost efficient, not just then the tiger/panther, but also then the carro armato. 2 carros aren´t as good as a sherman. In a shootout, the sherman has speed advantage, and is almost invulnerable to the carros at long range, while disrupting/damaging them itself

Also, if the allied player go first, it will probably kill one of the two carros attacking it outright, and you will not even get two shot against one.

Lastly, there´s a map problem. if 4 shermans gang up on an tiger and an armato, thats 6 vehicles in a small space, but it works. 8 carro vs 4 sherman is the double; 12! theres a big risk things will get too crowded, the carros being in the way for each other, stacking rules limiting effectivness. this is true specially as the carro needs short range in order to be a danger to the sherman.

Al that said, your strategy is still a sound one. it´s just that IMO there isn´t any good material for that strategy yet.

personally, I think that new pak´40 may be the best answer to the shermans.

4 pak´40
2 Wehermach expert sniper
1 Führer
3 panzergranadiers

Just set up your AT, advancing the PG to the objective. Sooner or later, the shermans must move towards the objective, and they will loose against the AT. The problem is that the sherman player will send in the humbers first, hoping to take out 2 ATs, and not really care if they die themselves. I´m unsure this army will beat the shermans, however. the shermans so good that even an "anti-sherman" army will probably loose to it.
ERRATA! ERRATA! ERRATA NOW!

[fspicinin]

I am a big defender of the Carro Armato. I have not tried something that drastic, but I am running some simulations about 2 CA chances against 1 sherman. You need to get really close to be afective, maybe close range, or you need to try a flanking shot. This build is very effective against infantry. Using some set 2 units I would try the following:

1 SS commander 7
1 SS PzIV 32
5 Carros Armatos 60

It will work? I dont know, but I want to try it using proxis.

[jeffyoungca]

The Carro Armatos actually still have a decent chance (36% disrupt, 15% damage) against a Sherman frontally at medium range. Better than the Sherman has against the Tiger frontally at medium (27% disrupt, 3% damage). So even if you only get a bunch of medium range shots you've got a pretty good chance of getting the Sherman. You would also try to concentrate on one or two Shermans and make sure you take them out rather than go 2 Carros on each Sherman.

You'd make the Sherman's sweat at least

[CdtWeasel]

I still have only one Carro Armato, hard to get one in a trade lol

[Waffen-SS(leader)]

I don't have any!!!!

Eric

[Y2UAsk]

If you could manage to disrupt all four Shermans in the first exchange, then you'd still have four unscratched M13/40s to swarm them and take rear shots against disrupted Shermans, where the M13/40s would have an 83% chance to damage at short range or 64% at medium.

Steve

[Der Leiter]

Carro Armato's are decent tanks. I've been lucky in that the few times I've played them they've never exploded on me. While they are less than adequate at long range, at medium or close they are quite good.

[fifleche]

Problem is, as much as I love the C-A's, is that they are rare tanks. The "Sherman Rush" and the "Parabomb" are all built w/o rares, and they dominate the battlefields, at least in ppl's minds (because the game is too young yet to have a real tournament scene). So, basically, anybody can build a "killer" Allied (US) army, while we're looking at a 8x rares (or 6x rares with the SS-PzIV build) build to *perhaps* stand a chance, and ppl don't even agree on that!

When I moan & complain that the Sherman/Rhino is broken, and say the same things about the teletroopers, it's not the unit that bothers me; it's that since those "abusive" builds are so easy to amass, I fear that they will dominate the tourney scene. And the Axis doesn't have an easy alternative in sight...

Now, I don't intend to play tourneys, unless there are historical limits enforced. And I don't see the "Sherman rush" nor the "Parabomb" as historic nor realistic. But I complain because if a side is dominating the "scene" it *WILL* hurt sales, which is bad for the health of the game, long-term, and I don't wan't to suffer plasticrack withdrawal anytime soon...

[Comassion]

The carro-rush is certainly not a sure thing against the 4x Sherman army (though it would work great against the Parabomb). The Shermans have a good shot at damaging a Carro at all ranges, and those damaged carros explode 2/3rds of the time. So assuming the Shermans stay together and don't let themselves get swarmed too badly (And with their speed, this isn't that hard), I expect that they'd chop up the Carros pretty quickly.

However, it certainly merits playtesting - pull out some Carro proxies, have at it, and report back here.